[Hummius]

Hi fellow p-onliners.

What i hope to ask with this poll is this: would the Prius have been as popular if General Motors or Ford had released it instead of Toyota? Or would some factor - such as a possible tendency among "tree huggers" to be possibly anti-american in car selection have kept its popularity down?

 

[Hummius]

I voted no in my own poll. I base this on the basic attitudes of those friends and aquaintances of mine who are liberal and prone to environmental concern. They tend to be biased against american cars.

 

[MikeFromEastCoast]

All other things being equal (quality, price etc), it would have been more popular in the US if made by an america company.

 

[wayneswhirld]

I think so. If, say, Saturn offered a car just like the Prius, it would sell at least as well...I would have certainly considered it (and I am definitely liberal). Most Americans want to buy American if they have that choice. Americans build a solid, well-put-together car. My '97 Subaru Outback was built in Indiana and is still going strong at over 200K miles.

 

[TomSwift]

I think of myself as politically liberal and I’m probably more concerned than the average citizen with environmental issues (so I would probably be put in the tree-hugger class) but I have tried to “buy American” whenever possible. I want to reward American companies for technical innovation and environmental awareness/sensitivity. I would have looked, very hard, at an American designed alternative to the Prius, if one had been available.

Although I would have looked at a GM/Ford hybrid, I voted “No” in the poll. I’m not convinced that American automotive management is ready to let their engineering and design people produce a vehicle that is as technically revolutionary as the Prius. Detroit seems to me to be more interested in bringing back the past with atavistic muscle car designs and models are considered new and ground breaking when a little chrome is added or subtracted or an even more powerful engine is added to an already overpowered car. I believe that GM/Ford could produce a viable alternative to the Prius. I don’t think they have the courage to start with a clean sheet of paper and do it.

 

[KTPhil]

I voted no. I bought this complex machine on the basis of my trust in Toyota's quality and customer support. I do not have that same trust in GM. I have posted before that I would not have bought it as any other make.

"All other things being equal (quality, price etc), "

Ay, there's the rub! Could they do it?

 

[hyperion]

We are back to the reliability thingy again. With the GM "prius" there would be no more five thousand mile tire rotations or 15, 000 mile wheel alignments or no more worrying about the small print in warranties. With the American car, if the warranty is for three years or 75,000 miles, and the car breaks it is fixed with no requirements or proof of extended maintanance warranty requirements. The milage and "time frame" is it.
I have never heard of a new American car being brought back to the dealer at 5,000 mile periods. Mine over the years have been brought in for lubes and work that I had decided I wanted done. No time frame mentioned for instance on the timing belt in my Voyagers, but when I quiered the service manager as to the time period the belts started to have to be replaced he said about 135,000 miles. So I had mine done at 100,000 miles. Just "made sense."
Of course the car would be much more solid and heavier and thus a little less in performance figures but my guess is that it would never have been built because of the expense and logical selling price, much higher than the American market could afford. You will only logically pay more for a hybrid to supposedly save money and at the present time it doesn't.

 

[rangerdavid]

:lol: :lol: I don't think so. If made by GM, instead of being a cutting edge technologically advanced step into the next generation of transportation, it probably would have been a joke, It probably wouldn't have worked worth a crap, it would have no support, repairs and service would have been a joke, and they would shortly discontinue production due to inept marketing strategies.

In short, I'm very glad it's made by Toyota. I wouldnt have purchased one if made by GM.... :roll: :lol:

 

[KTPhil]

I never mentioned "reliability." Equating that with "quality" is in many ways the very mistake the domestic makers still are making. To Toyota, "Quality" encompasses far more than just defects evident to the customer. There are dozens of books on the subject for those who care to understand WHY the Japanese auto industry is doing so well, and the domestics so poorly. Blaming them for making a better product is short-sighted and does nothing to solve the problems of the domestics.

 

[KTPhil]

"With the American car, if the warranty is for three years or 75,000 miles, and the car breaks it is fixed with no requirements or proof of extended maintanance warranty requirements."

My personal experience is the opposite. My friend's Saturn had a factory-documented cam defect, and he had to show every receipt for every oil change he did for 30,000 miles or the dealer was refusing to cover it under warrantee, even with the "secret" service bulletin we showed him. His first question? "Where did you get that? You aren't supposed to have those!"

Anecdotes do not prove anything. Long-term (10-20 years or more) data and root cause analysis prove Quality to me.

 

[janets98]

I also voted no due to reliability issues plus my own doubt that GM can keep its eye on the ball for any length of time. I think they'd find some way to screw up the hybrid. If Honda is struggling with the popularity of their hybrid models, GM would certainly fall flat on their collective azzes.

 

[hyperion]

I own and have driven trouble free at the present time an 82 Chevy pickup and an 87 Cadillac. The Chevy has 240,000 miles and the Cad 124,000. All trouble free with nary one recall. I have maintenance done on them if I beleive it is necessary but it has mainly been brakes and tires. What more can I possibly say.
And Phil, that was not your personal experiance but that of your friend. Sounds like he was dealing with a west coast Toyota dealer.
I'll admit, the Saturn is the new kid on the block (mainly new dealers say 25 yrs) but mainly the American dealers at least in this part of the country have been in business at least fifty years, some a lot longer and the "ONE" thing you described would shut them down in any small town here where service really counts, and is not "nickle and dime." That dealer would have been paid by GM so it was no skin off his nose what work he does, as is any of the recall and warranty work done on the Prius. It all comes out of the manufacturers pocket.
My Toyota dealers service dept is happy about the recalls.

 

[redwein]

I have never heard of a new American car being brought back to the dealer at 5,000 mile periods.

I just found the following owners manual for the 2005 Chevy Impala.

http://www.analogstereo.com/pdf/om/2k05impala.pdf

It tells you to change the oil when the light comes on, although it doesn't say how long that is. It does however, say that it must be done at least once a year and that if the light is ever reset accidentally, you must get your oil changed within 3,000 miles of your last oil change. That is an indication that the standard interval is in the vicinity of 5,000 miles with 3,000 miles being perhaps the worst case. While it may, on average, be a bit longer than the Toyota, it doesn't sound like it is significantly longer nor all that different. Also, the manual clearly states that any damage caused by failure to follow the maintenance guidelines will not be covered by warranty. Again, it sounds pretty similar.

This was the only owners manual I looked for to check the claim that American cars need much less frequent service than Toyotas. I did not look through a bunch of them and find just this one. I assume this is pretty standard for GM.

 

[KTPhil]

Yes, it was a "friend's" experience, but also my own, in that I found the "secret" GM documents for him, and went to the dealer with his wife to present them with the evidence of maintenance.

 

[Alphawolf]

I wouldn't even consider another GM car...

I have been there, done that. I have also owned Chrysler products, I currently own a Ford pick up. I have had Nissan before. I would never do a GM product again. I currently have my Prius, a Toyota Echo, a Toyota Corolla (I'm selling this because I bought my Prius), a Toyota Camry, and my Ford pick up for pulling my trailer.

 

[DanMan32]

I voted yes, but I have to put conditions on it. All that was asked is if the Prius was American. The Prius isn't just about the hybrid technology. It is also a reliable car.

The conditions would be that it be a the same Hybrid technology, with the same quality and durability, with same marketing (not putting it down like they seemed to have done with the EV1).

 

[TJandGENESIS]

I voted no, since the simple fact is that Toyota is known for quality. The number one thing I hear about (both) my Hybrids, is, 'Well, it's a Toyota. It will last.'

 

[hyperion]

Redwein, you are talking oil changes. No one expects a car owner to skip them. (common sense?)

 

[Ct. Ken V]

First of all, in the topic banner it says : "if made by G.M." & in the poll it says : "if it had been American".

If specifically made by G.M., I don't know (however my parents, my friends, & myself used to be staunch G.M. customers in the past). As far as Chrysler, I don't know again (none of my family ever had very good luck with Chrysler products when we did stray from G.M.). Now Ford was a different story : good products, good service, no hassles.

As said before by others : ALL things being equal [quality, price, & WARRANTY---the eight year/100,000 (or 10 year/150,000 for my state & the other states that recognize the California emissions standards) on the new technology hybrid components, is what clinched it for me. I got burned real bad on my 1st ever new car purchase [a V.W. diesel Rabbit, that had a lack of service understand'g, durability issues, a short warranty, & a lack of concern or support both at the dealer level & at the factory (service rep) level].

If a true Prius equal was to be produced here in the states, then we would not have to put up with the long waits for the cars to get here by boat, or Toyota's ridiculous allocation system that can leave customers wait'g for over a year in some locations while having a surplus of cars with no buyers in other locations. We could also probably get any of the option pkg's we want in any region of the country, & if the order system worked like it used to here in the states, then we could get the exact interior/exterior color combination that we want (you ask for it ,you get it----how does that fit into Toyota's present market'g strategy?).

Just some of my thoughts. I didn't vote however.

Ken (in Bolton,Ct)

 

[An04Prius]

8)