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hyperion said:
They just found an oil field off the shoreline of Rio with an estimated 30 million barrels of oil. Enough to keep every refinery in the States operating at maximum capacity for six years. (Portuguese anyone?)
Hit me on the head again, I liked it so much the first time. More oil is not the way out, it's the way we got in.
 

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We got into it Hep because oil is the cleanest, the most easily attainable, and the least expensive.
So far, the only thing really better has been nuclear, but since Jack Lemmon, Jane Fonda and the movie "China Syndrome," the American has kept his head in the sand and look at the result! Everyone else in the world just "loves it." (Both oil and nuclear.)
 

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hyperion said:
We got into it Hep because oil is the cleanest, the most easily attainable, and the least expensive.
So far, the only thing really better has been nuclear, but since Jack Lemmon, Jane Fonda and the movie "China Syndrome," the American has kept his head in the sand and look at the result! Everyone else in the world just "loves it." (Both oil and nuclear.)
We got into it when we didn't know better. We should now. Oil isn't cheap any more and it's going to get worse soon. Oil isn't clean enough, not even close. No offense hyp, but your generation and mine have screwed it for the kids. We should pony up and try to undo some of our mistakes and not dig in to protect the status quo because we are comfortable.

We need to take the billions W wants to use to drill ANWR and spend it on developing clean, renewable energy, as if it's a national emergency. Because it is.

We are using easily twice the oil we really need to mainain our current standard of living. But just try to suggest that a care that only seats 2-4 and gets 15 mpg should not be legal, and stand back and watch people froth at the mouth. The guy at my hardware store was all up in arms because the government is making us change to fluourescent lights.

More oil. :roll:
 

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You above all Hep should realize that the cost of gas is not going to get people into cars that they are not comfortable with.
The emmissions from a prius are really not that much less than those of the new cars coming out of todays factories, because of hi-tech combustion systems. The shock of hi-prices won't get me into my Prius when given the choice of the comfortable Highlander in the garage.
That's why Toyota makes more of the std cars, SUV'S and pick-up trucks. Bitching won't "cure it."
What scares me is the forcast cost of the oil I'll be burning in my furnace next winter. That will be triple the cost of anything I put in my gas tank.
We just can't get rid of the oil burning power plants located all over America so we have to get the price back down of this clean burning stuff. Regardless where it comes from (and there is no shortage) until the value of the dollar improves, it's going to cost us much more!
The price should lower the amount of driving being done (but it sure isn't showing yet) but it isn't going to get my wife to lower the thermostat of my furnace. I've tried everything from telling her how attractive she is in sweaters to taping a fistfull of dollar bills to the thermostat.
 

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hyperion said:
We got into it Hep because oil is the cleanest, the most easily attainable, and the least expensive.
So far, the only thing really better has been nuclear, but since Jack Lemmon, Jane Fonda and the movie "China Syndrome," the American has kept his head in the sand and look at the result! Everyone else in the world just "loves it." (Both oil and nuclear.)
I can't aggre sir! I rubbed myself all over with oil I was cold dirty and smelled bad.. Then I rubbed myself all over with tritium dust I was warm I didn't smell at all and I glowed in the dark, which I can tell you is verrry usefull.. Nuclear is much better than oil. 8)
 

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The aircraft carrier "JFK" can make fresh water out of salt in enough quantity in 24 hours to supply an entire city in Indonisia.
I have no idea why this countries government has not started this process in any of the states like Georgia and N. Carolina who now complain on having to rely on water from Tennessee to meets it's need account of drought conditions!
(Was noteworthy, however, that John McCain let the rabbit out of the bag yesterday in Denver, when he said "our boys are being sent to the middle east to fight for oil.")
Of course, by the time his plane landed in Phoenix, he recanted and suggested he was peaking of our first adventrures there to free Kuwait, and that we are really fighting in Iraq now because of the "Weapons of Mass Destruction."
 

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hyperion said:
The aircraft carrier "JFK" can make fresh water out of salt in enough quantity in 24 hours to supply an entire city in Indonisia.
."
Burning oil to make fresh water. Good plan. Next we can burn oil to make air to breath.
 

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Hep, The JFK is nuclear powered. The military can make as many nuclear powered ships as they want and as many as they need without "the red tape" Congress imposes on the rest of us. The JFK can also supply all the electric needs of a city the size of Los Angeles.
In fact, for the major earthquake scenereo, it has been suggested of tying up a nuclear carrier in the Port of Long Beach to do just this.
 

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hyperion said:
Hep, The JFK is nuclear powered. The military can make as many nuclear powered ships as they want and as many as they need without "the red tape" Congress imposes on the rest of us. The JFK can also supply all the electric needs of a city the size of Los Angeles.
In fact, for the major earthquake scenereo, it has been suggested of tying up a nuclear carrier in the Port of Long Beach to do just this.
So you are suggesting the dry areas in our south set up nuclear powered desalination plants to provide water for their cities?!? Or maybe park a Nimitz class aircraft carrier off the coast of each big city?
 

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I'm saying that the guys on the "manhatten project" all saw nuclear power as the savior of the world after WW2.
Most of the world has recognised this but the U.S. has been dragging it's feet and we have this oil and coal problem. We can't even solve the oil problem because of refinery building restrictions and of course because of the governmental paper work it is estimated if we go nuclear it will take ten years per plant.
You bypass all the restrictions and it only takes four years for the Navy to build a nuclear powered Cruiser or Carrier!
So the answer is yes if that's the only way we will see it. And why the heck not??
 

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Thats true, course it helped they named it for Bush's daddy. Didn't hear nothin bout cost overruns on that POS job as thay sat in Washington billion here billion there thas jus lunch. :twisted:
 

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Just put it on the credit card. My kids will pay for it some how. :roll:

Hyp, does any part of your grand plan involve using less energy, even at the expense of some individual sacrifice?
 

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Hep, if you want to ever replace oil, you are going to have to do something. I'm advocating nuclear because it is the cleanest and least expensive than "anything else" on the horizon. (Wind, solar, water.)
Now if your grandkids want to live in the best place in the world, it is definately going to cost them a lot. Nothing you are I can do to change this. Now if they want to seek alternatives, and I have checked and if I didn't have any kids or grandkids here and didn't want to worry about alternative power sources I'de definately head for "New Zealand,"
This country is the most desired place to live in the world because we have so much power!, (not speaking militarily) and I don't think you will find many folks who want to retrogress!
 

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Hep said:
Just put it on the credit card. My kids will pay for it some how. :roll:

Hyp, does any part of your grand plan involve using less energy, even at the expense of some individual sacrifice?
I know I am forced to cut down by shortsighted fools in my government, (not Happy!!!!!!!) by the way were also running out of fresh water, I reallly don't know which is worse letting the government decide or but it up as a vote to the morons who still vote. Lets build more homes even though we've reached our carrying capacity for water, energy, probably food if the fuel runs out to import it from New Zealand.
 
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