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Discussion Starter #1
Bloomberg published an analyisis of where Toyota is headed and how it's getting there.

Toyota's shares are already worth more than Renault SA, Volkswagen AG, DaimlerChrysler, Ford and General Motors combined.

Toyota is the most profitable auto manufacturer - it makes twice the profit compared to GM, even though it still sells 31% fewer cars. It does this by spending $3,500 less to make each car.

Toyota spent $1 billion to develop the Prius, in addition to it's $5 billion per year R&D budget. They expect to build 2 million hybrids annually within six years.

It looks like those of us who have bought a Prius are on the leading edge of a huge wave with lots of momentum.
 

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actually at over 10 Billion dollars last year, Toyota's profit is more than double GM AND ford combined.

i think they will be the biggest automobile manufacturer in less than 5 years.
i think we will continue to see an increase of 3% a year in production along with a similiar decline in gm's production.
 

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I got both you guys beat.

I believe Toyota is ALREADY the biggest.

I think the other manufacturers lie and mislead about how much they sell, and if the true numbers were known, they would be smaller than Toyota.
 

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well in a way you are right, the profit margins should tell you that if we take out cars that were sold with more than a 10% rebate on the sale price, then Toyota would have won by a landslide.

the ford f150 pickup is the best selling vehiclie in the world and do you know why??

because ford builds millions of them every year knowing they cant sell em and then dumps them at pennies on the dollar at the end of the year just to get rid of them.

i know because that is how i got mine. cost me $4600 cash for a vehicle that listed at $13,000
 

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Actually, if Toyota did fleet sells the way the other manufacturers do, we would be the largest by far. Just look at the Corolla, more sold every year world wide than all fords put together!!! And still, never a single recall on the Corolla in 37 years. Lets see a chevy do that!!!
 

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Why is Chrysler #5 read article

If you log on to Bloomberg.com yesterdays article' DiamlerChysler and GM play Catch-up on Hybrids: Doron Levin
the 6th Paragraph down Quote Dieter Zetsche DiamlerChrysler CE,
States " Though hybrids don't necessarily make sense from an engineering or efficiency standpoint, consumers are responding to
" emotional" considerations". If the CE think people are buying and waiting for the Prius only because of "Emotional constideration" He is
the reason D-C has been pushed down to #5 car manufactor. If someone could explain what that CE means? Does he mean from a financial consideration? Then he is right.
I leased my 1st and now 2nd Generation Prius Hybrid because it is more efficent,econmical, high tech, fairly priced, dependable, more usable trunk space and the best of all the cars I drove in 47 years.
Including the last 10 Chryslers I owned.
Tony Liscio,Prius Pioneer
Enjoying my 1yr.& 5 days old 2004 Prius, Tideland Pearl, option#7
 

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dont quote me on this, but i believe CE is the european equivalent of UL (underwriters lab) in the US.

only the CE is mainly concerned with electrical devices that give off radio frequency waves.

if you look on your computer, you will notice that it is certified by CE amongst others[/code]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Why is Chrysler #5 read article

Tony Liscio said:
If you log on to Bloomberg.com yesterdays article' DiamlerChysler and GM play Catch-up on Hybrids
Can you post a link to that article? I tried to locate it on the Bloomberg site, but couldn't find the path. I notice that my link is still available, so I'm sure yours can be found there with the right link.

Yes, I agree with you that these people are in serious denial when they dismiss the Prius as a 'feel-good' solution that has no practical value. Cynicism is a tidy little box people put themselves in when they have no love for the world, and no imagination or creativity about the right way to live. Those kinds of people have been calling the shots for too long, and they are responsible for most of the horendous damage that has been done. Maybe one day we will enter a new renaissance that embraces joy of life instead of the fear and greed that dominates now.
 

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Try this address or do a search for PRIUS on Google

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi ... Ma2OKIV.Ck

If this doesn't work then search on Google for Prius and scroll down and click on second page it was there yet today under DiamlerChrysler an GM Play Catch-up on Hybrids.

I am not sure if a Chief Executive has ahything to do with lab works.
But he made the comment if you can get to the article.

Tony Liscio,Prius Pioneer in Sharon,Pa.
 

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Let us hope for the well being of the country it is General Motors, and not Toyota. I like my Prius very much but the day I can get a hybrid made by an American union worker in Detroit, adios Toyota. (please don't harp on the outsourcing)
 

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I have news for ya...they're making fewer and fewer cars in Detroit these days. If you are hoping to buy a hybrid made there in the future, you may have a very VERY long wait.
 

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zinzindorf;

in the global economy we have today, it no longer means anything to "buy american" since a lot of the american products are partly or wholly built overseas.

intel is an american company through and through but manufacture practically nothing in the US anymore. 10 years ago that was far from the truth, but as time goes by more and more is being moved offshore. they no longer make any motherboards here

what would you rather have? an american company that is failing and selling a product no one wants? they will put little if anything back into the community as their first agenda is to their stockholders.

or would you rather have a company like Toyota that manufactures a very desirable product and makes a lot of money doing it? they will spend a lot of money here because they are making money and that benefits everyone.

forget the factories they have over here and the fact that they have re-employed a huge number of displaced workers at a decent wage. to sell here you have to spend money. sponserships, advertising, dealerships, etc. its all a win win situation.

a losing business doesnt help anyone.
 

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Daveoly, I repeat, for the well being of the USA I would hope that General Motors is the number#1 automaker in the world. Argue that point if you wish but I'm hoping the trend reverses. Toyota may well be the largest as long as there is a US market for their cars, but we lose GM and Ford and we will be buying darn few new cars of any "marque"
 

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Yeah, but Zin, you're not getting our point:

Even GM doesn't make most of its cars and parts in the US anymore. The auto manufacturers have fled Detroit and Dearborn over time. Ya gotta think that maybe there's a reason behind that.

My 1983 TransAm was built in California, but its engine came from Canada. It's computer and MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor parts came from Japan. I could go on, but this was a 1983 vehicle!

My 1999 Corvette was built in Bowling Green, KY, but ummm...I have never had so much trouble with a car as that one!

My 2000 BMW Z-3 was built in South Carolina, from parts shipped in from all over the world. They do an excellent job assembling cars in South Carolina. But then, they're doing it the way BMW wants it done.

My 1993 Miata was designed in Califonia, but built in Japan. It was a fantastic little car, and I had very few problems in the ten years I owned it!

Toyota is thinking about building hybrids here in the US. You can bet they're only considering this because they've found some evidence that it may make good business sense, not purely to employ American workers. Good business sense probably includes "doing it the Toyota way," ie...following Toyota's manufacturing standards and procedures. And I'll bet Toyota would pass up any potential site or local union officials that wouldn't allow this.

They build Mazdas and Fords in Flat Rock, Michigan. Not really near Detroit.

They build Toyota trucks near Evansville, Indiana. A bit farther from Detroit.

I could go on, but that would just be boring.
 

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Foe the well being of the US, hope toyota gets BIGGER. We are currentlly building a new factory in San Antonio. 80% of the Toyota sold in the US are made here 90% of the steel in all toyotas world wide is american steel. There are over 80,000 employed by Toyota in the US alone and growing every day. How does this never fall into the made in america column? Look at any foreign made car, if the VIN starts with a number it is made here if not, it is from over seas.
 

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DaveOly. Although I agree with the point you are making, Intel is a bad example. Yes they have lots of overseas capacity, but they also have lots of fabs scattered about the U.S. spewing out processors and other chips. They also do still make some motherboards in the U.S.
 

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well said BIF

you must realize by now that Japan's recession they had (and is still feeling) a few years ago hurt us.

the world has become smaller. national boundaries means nearly nothing. if you found out how much "american" products were manufactured here but all corporate profits immediately fled the country, you would puke.

i will find a post on French companies that market products in the US. you will be appalled how much you spend to support a country that, to put it mildly, does not have our best interests in mind.

with that in mind, how can you bash Japan? they are our allies through and through. their financial idealism more closely matches ours than nearly any other country in the world.

if you want to support something, how about Wisconsin Cheddar over French Roquefort? ( i dont care if i spell it right or not)

now that is buying American!
 

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If you don't agree with the premise that the economy of the US would be much better if the American car manufacturers were the predominant in the market then the subject is closed. I have found nothing built elswhere any better than those made in the US and lets scratch windshields and some runs of engines. The French stick with French built, The Germans with German built and even the Italians like their own cars. The Japanese build some cars in the US because it is "cheaper" to do so. Just about all nations are finding with the advances in automation negating cheap labor, that transportation costs are now becoming a dominate cost. These are skyrocketing while manufacturing costs are becoming nuetral everywhere. Now if you don't agree with me that I feel my new Buick is hands above the Camry then there is no argument. I just wonder how long it has been since you last owned an American car. I like my Prius but I think it is being purchased by previous Japanese car owners who are satisfied with the complete lack of instrumentation and who are completely happy with "IDIOT" lights. If GM holds on to it's statement of all hybrids in 2007, I'll be able to again purchase a "real" automobile.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
zinzindorff9 said:
If you don't agree with the premise that the economy of the US would be much better if the American car manufacturers were the predominant in the market then the subject is closed.
Does this mean that if everyone agrees with your premise, then the subject can remain open? I'm just trying to get the rules straight.

Actually, I can agree with you - sure, the US economy would be much better if it was the main producer of cars for the world. But, since the US car manufacturers are steadily losing ground, and those manufacturers that are guided by different philosophies than those held in the US are gaining ground, maybe your premise misses the mark. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Have you considered the coincidence that the US manufacturers produce the cars that are the least economic to own, and are themselves the least economic producers?

The US government claims that it is not economic to sign on to the Kyoto Accord. I assume this means that it wishes to persist in producing the most wasteful, polluting autos in the world, among other similar practices. How long can this philosophy hold up? No one else in the world seems to agree with it.
 

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zinzindorff9 said:
If you don't agree with the premise that the economy of the US would be much better if the American car manufacturers were the predominant in the market then the subject is closed. I have found nothing built elswhere any better than those made in the US and lets scratch windshields and some runs of engines. The French stick with French built, The Germans with German built and even the Italians like their own cars. The Japanese build some cars in the US because it is "cheaper" to do so. Just about all nations are finding with the advances in automation negating cheap labor, that transportation costs are now becoming a dominate cost. These are skyrocketing while manufacturing costs are becoming nuetral everywhere. (1) Now if you don't agree with me that I feel my new Buick is hands above the Camry then there is no argument. (2) I just wonder how long it has been since you last owned an American car. (3) I like my Prius but I think it is being purchased by previous Japanese car owners who are satisfied with the complete lack of instrumentation and who are completely happy with "IDIOT" lights. (4) If GM holds on to it's statement of all hybrids in 2007, I'll be able to again purchase a "real" automobile.
Oh my, what a condescending post. Normally, I'd chalk it up to some union hack's ramblings, and I would just skip past it.

However, this is an important issue. I believe your denial is indicative of the problems in the American auto manufacturing industry; unwillingness or inability to see or admit that there's even a problem!

Where do I start? I won't bother with the whole post; that's just too tiring to think about. So I'll just make four points:

1) What do you mean "if I don't agree with you that your Buick is better than the Camry?" I don't get that statement. I have owned neither car, so whether or not I agree with you is a moot point.

2) I have owned and driven Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Oldsmobiles, a Mazda, a BMW, and my current Toyota Prius. I've probably driven close to three-quarters of a million miles in my adult life, so I think I have enough experience to be able to comment on my automotive encounters.

3) Just because I have driven two Japanese cars is no reason for you to make comments about my preferences with regards to "idiot lights." That's sort of condescending and insulting. And in fact, I must state plainly that at least my controls all function (or functioned) correctly in my Japanese cars. In fact, I have never had to take my non-American cars' dashboards apart to fix something. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for my so-called American-Built cars. "Idiot lights" or not, I require functioning and dependable instrumentation.

4) I define a "real" automobile as one that gets me where I need to be, safely, on time, and with a minimum of fuss. A "real" automobile must be dependable, and must NOT spend so much time in the shop that it continually and repeatedly forces me to rent a substitute. My GM cars, the most expensive one in particular, spent far far too much time in the shop to be considered "real" vehicles. Several times, I had to have my reasonably new GM vehicles towed to the garage, because they wouldn't make it on their own power. When a car seems to spend more time BEHIND and ATTACHED TO the towtruck than it does PASSING the towtruck, then there's something wrong with that picture.


Finally, I will say that I sincerely HOPE that the American manufacturers can turn it around. But the only way they will is if they wake up and recognize that there is a problem to begin with. People want the dependability of Toyotas and Hondas. And they're increasingly wanting hybrids. Today. Not tomorrow. Not "later." Not in 2007. Not "when we get around to it."

Finally, we don't want to hear "light hybrids will be good enough for you because we, The Big Car Company says so."

The manufacturers who ignore these things do so at their own potential peril.
 
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