[cs]

Hello all, I am a new Prius owner as of Friday 9/22. I am thinking about putting a Hobbs meter (hour meter) onto the ICE and also one as a trip timer. However, before doing that I figure I'd better check to see if something is already there.

I understand that there is a computer that tracks all sorts of data from inputs during each drive and that Toyota can access and use that data. Is it an easy thing to access that data for personal use? Are there already pointers for doing this?

 

[DanMan32]

Well, theres the ScanGuage for the ICE info, then there's CANView for the hybrid specific data. If you have lots of money, you can buy the scanner that Toyota dealers use. You can purchase a CAN decoder that sends data to a PC via RS232 or USB based serial. Attila Vass developed software to decode quite a bit of data this way. He got busy and stopped development in his opensource software.

There are lots of products out there that will record data that can be dumped to a PC. Be sure they are CAN compatable. Also they probably will only record common ICE data and not any hybrid specific data. That might be sufficient for your wants though.

 

[cs]

Thanks.

Does CANView work for 06 models? I was under the impression that there were changes in 06 such that CANView is not working now. Or, is it that it just does not output to the MFD?

ICE info for now would be great. I am interested in basing oil changes on hours, as in aircraft, instead of miles. One can deduce that the ICE in the Prius is not running nearly as long in 5K miles as an normal ICE would. I would like to see the difference in runtime.

On thinking this over though, there is a lot of data tat might be fun to gather and parse through in different ways. I will do a search for "Attila Vass" and see what is available as a starting point.

 

[DanMan32]

CANView's human interface is through the MFD, so you are right, there is a potential problem there for a 2006. I am not sure if that had been resolved yet.

As for oil changes by engine run time, that's not advisable, unless you don't want to take advantage of your 60K drivetrain warranty. That warranty requires 5K/6 months oil change interval.
Of course doing oil changes more frequently than this will not void your warranty, if that is what you expect the outcome to be.

As for Attilla's project, here's his website:
http://www.vassfamily.net/ToyotaPrius/CAN/cindex.html

 

[efusco]

Although I think a time based formula for oil changes makes more sense than a mileage based intervals I think you will encounter problems should you have any ICE warranty issues as well. What number of hours will you use and what will you base it upon?

Here's what I'd suggest regarding your Hobbs. If you choose not to use the miles traveled intervals then you should at least have your oil tested every 5000 miles or so to determine your baseline for 'hours b/w oil changes. It would be great it you could publish your findings online.

 

[hyperion]

One other thing to take into consideration is the statement that the ICE does not run at all times which is true but with a scan guage you will find it runs at least 85% of the time.
Oil is the cheapest thing you will purchase for this car.

 

[mrv]

Oil is the cheapest thing you will purchase for this car.

Windshield wiper fluid is much cheaper than oil!

(even gasoline can be cheaper, if you are only looking at price per quart/liter, but you use so much more of it than oil...)

Perhaps you intended that "Oil is one of the cheapest things you will purchase for this car?"

 

[efusco]

One other thing to take into consideration is the statement that the ICE does not run at all times which is true but with a scan guage you will find it runs at least 85% of the time.

My CAN-View indicates that my ICE runs around 40% of the time. It will vary dramatically individual to individual depending upon route and driving style and speed.

That's exactly why a Hobbs would be a good idea for the Prius b/c of the variability. With my ICE running 40% of the time I shouldn't need to change oil every 10,000 miles to your 5000 miles.

 

[cs]

Thanks for the input. In the world of general aviation oil is usually changed every 50 hours of run time on the engine or every 6 month interval, whichever comes first. Mobile 1 had an aviation oil on the market for a short time that was approved for 100 hours between oil changes. <Unfortunately, it reacted with the lead in the fuel, caused sludge deposits and was pulled from market.> I think that oil changes every 100 hours would be a good baseline to begin with. If one presumes an average 50 miles per hour (city and highway) then 5000 miles / 50 mph = 100 hours.

There are other variables to throw in there though such as the fact that even though the engine is not running it is still spinning at speeds over (what is it?) 45 mph. If the spinning or the engine is taken into account it might indeed be near 85% time in service.

I understand the warranty issue and it does concern me a little bit. I also unserstand that, like an aircraft, oil is one of the less espensive things that go into the car over it's service life. Really, it's just something to do and play around with.

Now, about the scanner. Is that what is used to download the car's history file?

 

[efusco]

There are times, plenty of them, where the ICE is spinning but without fuel being injected and/or burned. Depending upon how the Hobbs is set up that can be taken into account...IOW, If it tracks time on based upon the rpm of the ICE then it should be pretty accurate for the total time it's spinning. If it judges only by time fuel is being injected then it won't take into account those 'free spinning' periods.

That said, the 'free spin' times cause very little wear. Someone in another group mentioned every 2 year oil changes in certain motors that spin without internal combustion. So, it may not matter if you count the time it spins freely.

Again, it's one of those uncertain issues that make using something like Hobbs just a little more 'iffy' since you have no standard or baseline to judge by.

I say that not to discourage you at all, just that you're breaking new ground and if you're going to do it I'd encourage you to be very thorough and careful about it to start...have the oil samples tested, show the results. Graph your time vs miles vs oil quality so others can use that in the future.

 

[DanMan32]

Aviation conditions are much harder on engines than automobile conditions. So 50-100hrs is not the best means of measuring.

50 hrs at 60 MPH yields 3000 miles. 100 hrs is 6000 miles.
Hmm, maybe it would work.

 

[MtnTraveler]

Do the motor/generators need any lubing?

 

[DanMan32]

Yup, via ATF. Toyota uses a newer kind, but they use the newer one in many of their later models. The difference though in the Prius is that the ATF is only used to lube/cool in a similar fashion as a manual transmission. No gear changes to grind, no hydraulic controls with tiny pores to get clogged up, not torque converter to generate extra heat.

The tranny also has a cooling system tied together with the inverter cooling which further reduces heat wear on the components and ATF. This cooling circuit is independent from the ICE cooling circuit but uses the same fluid: SLLC

 

[Pinto_Girl]

I think I'm in over my head, but also, don't aircraft engines tend to run at fixed power settings for longer periods of time, which would make calculating a safe number of hours between changes much easier than in the case of an automobile...?

Without, as Dr. Fusco suggested, testing the oil regularly, I don't see how one could be certain that one wasn't causing harm. Comparing hours to miles driven seems like a good place to start, but also seems a little iffy to me.