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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I am a new member here. My automotive interests are more the likes of the fire-breathing high-compression big block 440's and 426 Hemis of days gone by. I must say that I am MOST DEFINITELY not into these funky hybrid vehicles. However, I could appreciate the fact that they help keep the air clean.

Tonight, that whole myth was shattered when I came upon the articlw below...

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/liv ... ge_id=1770

For the token little bit of emissions that are not being released into the atmosphere by y'all's buzzing little Priuses, the entire northern part of Ontraio has to suffer due to the emissions from the plant that produced the batteries that keep y'all's Priuses happily buzzing along. What's not right with this picture?

Maybe some of you Prius owners could fill me in on how you feel this is justified. I'm assuming none of y'all actually have to LIVE in the area of this plant.
 

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You have to watch out for all the misinformation that's out there. Don't believe everything you read.

The batteries are made by Panasonic, and so far the Prius is made only in Japan.
There's lots of other industries that create pollution, but in the last few decades, lots have been done in North America to curb harmful emissions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
DanMan32 said:
You have to watch out for all the misinformation that's out there. Don't believe everything you read.

The batteries are made by Panasonic, and so far the Prius is made only in Japan.
There's lots of other industries that create pollution, but in the last few decades, lots have been done in North America to curb harmful emissions.
I read it on the internet so I know it HAS to be true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow, 156 views and only one reply. Imagines that.


Since I'm here, perhaps some of y'all could school me a little bit. From what I can see, there are only two reasons you folks are buying these infernally nasty things.

One would be the perception of improved fuel economy. From what I hear from Toyota dealership techs, these heaps don't get the kind of fuel mileage some owners were expecting to get. Were you folks thinking you were going to get 60 miles per gallon or somrthing? A Z06 Corvette gets 31 miles per gallon on the highway and infinitely more smiles per gallon than these Prius abominations. Have any of you with a Ph.D. sat down and done a cost/benefit analysis of how long it will take for your rolling abortions to pay for the initial extra cost incurred? Not to mention the cost of replacing the batteries? Brilliant, truly brilliant.

THe only other reason I can you folks ever considering these atrocities on wheels would be the ill perceived notion of buying a car that is less "harmful" to the environment. Do any of you rocket surgeons take into consideration how much more harm is being done to the environment in the mere PRODUCTION of these jalopies? Not to mention, once again, when it comes time for new batteries.

So let's hear from all the intellectual Prius owners. School me on what makes these things so wonderful.
 

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:)

A little light reading of these boards and/or use of the search function would cure you of your misperceptions. Since I don't believe that you're actually interested in hearing from the other side, I won't waste my time with a detailed response.
 

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Fish Antlers is back! Served your time in detox? We missed you, man!

Liked your old name better. OneBad? :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hep said:
Fish Antlers is back! Served your time in detox? We missed you, man!

Liked your old name better. OneBad? :roll:
Ummmmmmm.excuse me Einstein but this is my first time here. The link in my initial post was posted on the Mopar board I hang out on last night so I took it upon myself to see just what it is that the greenie-weinie crowd sees in these things.

As for the "OneBad" part, that is the same name I use on the Mopar board. It pertains to the red, white and blue 1970 Plymouh Road Runner Superbird that is shown on the right hand side of my sig pic. It is One Bad Superbird. Capable of devouring a Priius for lunch and spiiting it out it's uncorked, unmuffled open header exhaust.

As for the post above yours, I'm not interested in neither searches nor wading through pages upon pages of gobbledy-**** to see what makes people go ga-ga-goo-goo over these pathetic excuses for automobiles and that is why I joined up here...to find the answers in one thread. From the "I won't waste my time with a detailed response" answer, I can only assume that there is NO answer.
 

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Those plants have been spewing out for a lot more years than hybrids have been on the roads and should be the responsibility of the Canadian Government.
I will admit that hybrids bought by folks to help reduce emmissions are a complete waste and will be until National or federal laws mandate what can be released into the atmosphere. Until then, hybrids are not even a drop in the bucket but if it makes you personally feel more responsible then I give you credit.
I bought mine to determine why the majority of car manufacturers in the world are "passing" on the principle.

I believe I have and also because of the complexity of the synergy drives I think we will see no further models from Toyota or Honda.
These are just personal thoughts. (and my mind won't be changed by $5.00 a gallon gas)

As far as the web-site and the "winged" cars I would suggest that the owners have absolutely no taste at all.
 

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OneBadSuperbird said:
Wow, 156 views and only one reply. Imagines that.


Since I'm here, perhaps some of y'all could school me a little bit. From what I can see, there are only two reasons you folks are buying these infernally nasty things.

One would be the perception of improved fuel economy. From what I hear from Toyota dealership techs, these heaps don't get the kind of fuel mileage some owners were expecting to get. Were you folks thinking you were going to get 60 miles per gallon or somrthing? A Z06 Corvette gets 31 miles per gallon on the highway and infinitely more smiles per gallon than these Prius abominations. Have any of you with a Ph.D. sat down and done a cost/benefit analysis of how long it will take for your rolling abortions to pay for the initial extra cost incurred? Not to mention the cost of replacing the batteries? Brilliant, truly brilliant.

THe only other reason I can you folks ever considering these atrocities on wheels would be the ill perceived notion of buying a car that is less "harmful" to the environment. Do any of you rocket surgeons take into consideration how much more harm is being done to the environment in the mere PRODUCTION of these jalopies? Not to mention, once again, when it comes time for new batteries.

So let's hear from all the intellectual Prius owners. School me on what makes these things so wonderful.
Of course.. compare highway miles of a regular car to a hybrid's city mileage lol. We know and YOU know that highway mileage is waaay more constant cause you're going at a constant speed. Hell, with our Camry, we got EXACTLY the rated highway mileage and that was going up and down the cascades...

60mpg? sure.. I've gotten pretty close.. 57mpg actually. It's like driving on the highway all the time... oh wait, no other vehicle gets 57 highway mpg in the US anyway... oh well.

You wanna talk environmental damage? I wonder how much pollutants your "bird" poops out just SITTING there :lol:

Oh right, you don't have a Ph.D. to realise that a car parked also emits emissions from paint and other materials...

If you wanted an honest answer, you wouldn't insult the people you're asking. Methinks you just want to stir up trouble. Then you'll simply go back to your regular boards and claim what idiots we are for not answering your question even though you "tried".
 

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OneBadSuperbird said:
Hep said:
Fish Antlers is back! Served your time in detox? We missed you, man!

Liked your old name better. OneBad? :roll:
Ummmmmmm.excuse me Einstein but this is my first time here. The link in my initial post was posted on the Mopar board I hang out on last night so I took it upon myself to see just what it is that the greenie-weinie crowd sees in these things.

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Ah, Fish. You're not fooling me. :lol: I just don't think you're going to get everybody riled up with those same old provocations! You got to try something new! Maybe say something clever about our mothers? :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hep said:
Ah, Fish. You're not fooling me. :lol: I just don't think you're going to get everybody riled up with those same old provocations! You got to try something new! Maybe say something clever about our mothers? :wink:
Hey Einstein, care to put your beloved Prius where your mouth is? I'll put my $200K worth of rolling real eastate up against your traah heap that I ain't whoever it is you're referring to. The ball is in your court Homie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
hyperion said:
Those plants have been spewing out for a lot more years than hybrids have been on the roads and should be the responsibility of the Canadian Government.
I will admit that hybrids bought by folks to help reduce emmissions are a complete waste and will be until National or federal laws mandate what can be released into the atmosphere. Until then, hybrids are not even a drop in the bucket but if it makes you personally feel more responsible then I give you credit.
I bought mine to determine why the majority of car manufacturers in the world are "passing" on the principle.

I believe I have and also because of the complexity of the synergy drives I think we will see no further models from Toyota or Honda.
These are just personal thoughts. (and my mind won't be changed by $5.00 a gallon gas)

As far as the web-site and the "winged" cars I would suggest that the owners have absolutely no taste at all.
Very interesting take on things. Thank you for taking the time to post it. Kind of an expensive experiment though judt to see why automakers are passing on the whole concept. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Tideland Prius said:
Of course.. compare highway miles of a regular car to a hybrid's city mileage lol. We know and YOU know that highway mileage is waaay more constant cause you're going at a constant speed. Hell, with our Camry, we got EXACTLY the rated highway mileage and that was going up and down the cascades...

60mpg? sure.. I've gotten pretty close.. 57mpg actually. It's like driving on the highway all the time... oh wait, no other vehicle gets 57 highway mpg in the US anyway... oh well.

You wanna talk environmental damage? I wonder how much pollutants your "bird" poops out just SITTING there :lol:

Oh right, you don't have a Ph.D. to realise that a car parked also emits emissions from paint and other materials...

If you wanted an honest answer, you wouldn't insult the people you're asking. Methinks you just want to stir up trouble. Then you'll simply go back to your regular boards and claim what idiots we are for not answering your question even though you "tried".
Ahhhhhh, spoken like a true greenie! In all my years (44), I have NEVR seen anyone bring up environmental damage done by a car's paint and other materials just sitting there!

As for insulting the constituency here, I just can't help it. In my daily travels, whenever I see a Prius or Honduhhhh Insight, I can't help but look at the driver and notice what dorky liberal-looking greenie types they are. As for going back to my regular Mopar board and making claims, there's no need. This was something I did on my own solely to see what I could learn. If I rattled a few cages along the way, that was a nice added benefit.
 

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OneBadSuperbird said:
Hep said:
Ah, Fish. You're not fooling me. :lol: I just don't think you're going to get everybody riled up with those same old provocations! You got to try something new! Maybe say something clever about our mothers? :wink:
Hey Einstein, care to put your beloved Prius where your mouth is? I'll put my $200K worth of rolling real eastate up against your traah heap that I ain't whoever it is you're referring to. The ball is in your court Homie.
Ok, got it. :wink: You old dog.
 

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OneBadSuperbird said:
Hep said:
Ok, got it. :wink: You old dog.
Just as I suspected. All yack and no shack.
"with beer, guns and pickups, who needs women" right Fish? We greenie-weenie Einstiens do like to have the emotional side of the debate represented right along with the intelligent side. Welcome back.
 

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Expensive?? Not nearly so much as just several modifications to one of your cars!
I would suggest you get a hold of a Prius and drive it for a thousand miles. Get into the nuts and bolts and see what had to be done to make a pretty good copy of a standard car that just about doubles the milage we have become accustomed too. (The Camry, Accord, Lexas and Highlander "derivitives," Forget them. None "doubles" the milage and aren't worth the premium paid over the standard car.)
A real car? it's not exactly and you realize this the moment you get in and start it up and see nothing on the dash board but a speedometer and fuel guage. It does have a lot of strange noises and is no more powerfull than any small compact but it does equal the performance of any of them and with twice the milage figures and thus the demand for less imported middle eastern oil. (The real object as I see it)

The way I see it, we have to do something about eliminating the need of Mid-East oil so we can get the heck out of there and let history resume as it should, So far a 50MPG car is about the only thing that might work but until it is mandated the "hemis" will continue to roll. I have nothing against them now as a hobby and I've owned my share over the past sixty years, and loved every one. (Spent two years getting my flat head Ford roadster up to 100 MPH in the desert at Palmdale in the late forties.)

The purchase of a Prius was worth it to me to discover why I believe automakers will never go hybrid and I bought my Prius when they were really cheap and gas was a buck and a half a gallon. (And, I can get pretty close to what I paid for my almost three year old car today)

They aren't for the car "driving" enthusiast but but they are cheap commuting wheels if your budget requires that. You can subsitute the joy of driving pleasure and replace it with the satisfaction of observing many more MPG with acceptable performance, as we did with the first VW's that appeared here in the states. (And for those it's important too, almost zero the emission problem.) I am sure most owners will say they enjoy driving them as well but in my mind these are the same folks who don't miss an instrument panel nor the joys of driving a Beemer, Porsche, or Chrysler 300. (They actually really see "the bigger picture" and in their hearts really don't hate the guy who loves his "Hummer.")

I know those "speed-wings" really work but they even got the first ugly ones off the first ones used on the "indy cars" so you have a little more work to do. (You have really made some swans into looking like ugly ducklings)

Again, these are jut personal observations and my opinion.
.
.
 

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OneBadSuperbird said:
Tideland Prius said:
Of course.. compare highway miles of a regular car to a hybrid's city mileage lol. We know and YOU know that highway mileage is waaay more constant cause you're going at a constant speed. Hell, with our Camry, we got EXACTLY the rated highway mileage and that was going up and down the cascades...

60mpg? sure.. I've gotten pretty close.. 57mpg actually. It's like driving on the highway all the time... oh wait, no other vehicle gets 57 highway mpg in the US anyway... oh well.

You wanna talk environmental damage? I wonder how much pollutants your "bird" poops out just SITTING there :lol:

Oh right, you don't have a Ph.D. to realise that a car parked also emits emissions from paint and other materials...

If you wanted an honest answer, you wouldn't insult the people you're asking. Methinks you just want to stir up trouble. Then you'll simply go back to your regular boards and claim what idiots we are for not answering your question even though you "tried".
Ahhhhhh, spoken like a true greenie! In all my years (44), I have NEVR seen anyone bring up environmental damage done by a car's paint and other materials just sitting there!

As for insulting the constituency here, I just can't help it. In my daily travels, whenever I see a Prius or Honduhhhh Insight, I can't help but look at the driver and notice what dorky liberal-looking greenie types they are. As for going back to my regular Mopar board and making claims, there's no need. This was something I did on my own solely to see what I could learn. If I rattled a few cages along the way, that was a nice added benefit.
lol. You wanted Hep to stop assuming you're Fish yet you're making your own assumptions about me.

No way in hell am I a greenie (with all due respects to those who are). Trust me, you won't see me tree hugging or on "save the moths" campaigns.

I suppose I can also look at every Superbird driver and think "omg, what a dork! Does he think that giant spoiler actually helps?"

actually, come to think of it, you probably do need a big spoiler to compensate :lol: :lol:
 

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I bought the car for the economy and for the technology. I am certainly no liberal. But I am fascinated by the technology. All cars today have all sorts of new technology, and even more technology is added every day. We can't keep going business as usual using straight combustion engines. We have to start working our way away from them, but it will have to be a gradual process, and the hybrid is a great way to start. New technology is always more expensive, but the cost drops as it becomes mainstream. Remember CD players being $1000? Now you can get a portable one for $30. One of the greatest advantages of the Prius is that it CAN drive completely on electric using MG2, so experimenters and developers can use an existing stock production vehicle and improve on either the electric drive side, the internal combustion side, or both in finding improvements to the drive system. However, one also has to consider other factors than just mileage and pollution. Long term reliability has to be considered, and Toyota was very careful about that. This is why they are not quickly switching to lithium batteries, which do hold more energy than NiMH, but currently are not as safe.

As for the battery causing environmental damage in production, I doubt it. The Lead-Acid battery in all cars are much more damaging than the nickel-metal hydride that hybrids use. NiH batteries have been used for a long time now in all sorts of stuff, not just cars.

Also Toyota has been working on the Prius since 1997, a whole decade! So I don't see the synergy drive going away any time soon. If the design weren't profitable or economical, then Toyota wouln't have expanded it to other models. The reason the other models don't get as much mileage as the Prius is because they were designed for more power, not economy. Remember, the other models with Synergy drive get More power while using less fuel compared to their conventional counterparts. Talk about having your cake and eat it too!

As for getting EPA mileage, it is all in how you drive the car. The car is very sensitive to wasteful driving, but does give the driver the capability to reduce this waste in how it is driven. Conventional cars don't offer this capability. They will show the same waste, with little regard to how it is driven. I have rarely gotten less than 50 MPG, and usually much more than this. My Saturn I averaged 33 MPG, and maybe I got 37 sometimes.
 

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Wow. I'm ALMOST speechless. Its one of those days where someone can insult you and try to nicely ask you a question in the same sentence. Absolutely unbelievable. But anyways.

I bought the Prius for the higher MPG and for technology, and the low emissions is a definite plus. Its like buying a brand new camera or a new computer--its a giant gadget on wheels. How many cars have a built in rear view backup camera? That's pretty cooool. And a START button! Although it seems with the newer cars they're stealing these little gadgets but we can still say.. hey, we were kinda first :)

I am far from being a geek, nor a greenie. And as far as I can remember, I've never hugged a tree.

When I can drive 100MPH, I do, when I can't, I don't. I've averaged about 45MPG over the last 10k miles, but have realized that I have not been watching my tires and that my lovely dealer has been underinflating them everytime I am in the shop. Your rationale is that a Corvette could get 31MPG. Can this Corvette do this in 75 miles of bumper to bumper traffic per day and still get 31MPG? I'm talking under 30MPH, usually around 20MPH. I have yet to see a car other than a Hybrid, handle the super slow stop and go of Los Angeles traffic without taking a pretty ugly gasoline hit. I drive 100 miles a day, ranging from bumper to bumper traffic, and only having only 24 miles of it be in free open-lanes (no traffic!). Cost analysis?

I have compared a Toyota to several cars, and am still saving a ton of money in gas even if the other car makes 30-35MPG and cost less. I even got a package #7.

California has the second highest gas prices in the US (at least the last I checked, I believe this is still true)--only second to Hawaii.

Also, in California it allows you to use the HOV lane. Being a 100-mile commuter to Los Angeles on a daily basis, this helps tremendously. You can't put a price on a Carpool lane sticker!
 
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