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Discussion Starter #1
If I cn get two echo's or 1.5 Corollas for the cost of 1 Prius, with vry similar mileage... proven reliability and conventional maintenance and tecchnology, then why even bother?

Seriously..

this is the thing that is holding me back. Even if gs trippled in price, the minimal difference in economy between the conventional gas car and the Prius would be nothing compared to the cost difference.


So someone convince me.
 

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To save the Earth, man.

No, seriously: Prius is not the cheapest car to own, not even the cheapest new car to own. If you want to minimize your direct expenses, buy a 1 or 2 year old Civic. If you want to do something, small though it is, about petroleum addiction and air pollution, buy a Prius.
 
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No need to convince you. Get the two echos. This way you can have a spare.

Seriously... if you have to ask the question, don't bother getting the Prius.
 

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Prius has tremendous value to me

I like the car for its tremendous value. I'm a technology fan, so I like all the gadgets. For me, the gadgets plus fuel economy at $27K equals an unbeatable value. Nowhere else can you go and find all of the gadgets and economy in one car for such a great price. If you want that technology, you must step into luxury cars to get it, at a higher price, and without the fuel efficiency. I just ordered a fully loaded 2006 with every option. I'm hooked on navigation (I can't live without it) and the bluetooth for hands-free phone usage. The xenon headlights make a huge difference at night (I ruled out the '06 Civic because it lacks Xenons). The hatchback and fold-down seats are very flexible (pratical). My music collection is MP3, so the audio system will play those from a CD. There's a button on the steering wheel for nearly everything (audio, climate, phone, navigation) which is ultra convenient. The HUD is pretty cool too. The Hybrid Synergy Drive is an engineering marvel (drive one and you will agree). I rented a Prius from my Toyota dealer ($30/day) and was hooked on the car ever since (thus my purchase).
However, if your only concern is cost-effectiveness without recent technological advancements, then you can find a better deal with a pre-owned Echo, Civic, Corolla, or Kia. For me, the technology plus best fuel economy possible equals an unbeatable solution. The hybrids are in high demand, and I believe hybrids are the future. I believe hybrids will hold their resale value better as time goes on because more people are moving to hybrids thus the demand for them is increasing. If you drive a hybrid such as a Prius, you will think "normal' non-hybrid cars are very outdated. Why should any car burn gasoline when stopped at a traffic light? It's so inefficient. The Prius is the perfect solution for me. I love this car!!! BTW I can barely wait to see what the 3rd-generation Prius will offer (2009-ish). Personally I'd like to see a Lexus version of the Prius - now that would be even better!
 

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Here's the math for me.

Cost of Prius - cost of saved gas - 2006 tax credit < cost of comparably equipped non-hybrid

It's the "comparably equipped" part that gets you. Sure, you can get two not-comparably-equipped cars for that price. Do you care about the things they're lacking the Prius has? If not, the math won't work for you.

Don't imagine the "cost of saved gas" part is the clincher in this formula. It's hardly anything on the scale of the other numbers.

Now, if you want to also help save the world, you can try to add that into the formula. I surely do, but I wouldn't presume to put a dollar amount on that. If that's all you were in for, you could probably do better by giving that money to WWF or the Nature Conservancy or something anyway.
 

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Prius is more than MPG

Prius is more than fuel efficient.

It is remarkably quiet - accelerating to highway speeds there are no gears shifting, gliding through a parking lot or residential development the only sound is distant tire hum, and of course, all is still waiting at a traffic light. The silence is amazing...and welcome.

It is practical - there is almost as much room inside as a Camry in a car that leaves a smaller shadow than a Civic, it's a hatch-back with fold-down rear seats. Easy to park, easy to live with.

It is no slouch - it's no dragster either, but the electric motors provide torque instantly without waiting for RPMs to build so acceleration from a standstill is great.

It is exotic - it has the most advanced drive train of any production vehicle today, and as exotic as it is, you can buy it and have it serviced at your local Toyota dealer.

It is reliable - JD Power and Consumer Reports support what Prius owners already know. We are on our second Prius and have only maintained it, never had to repair anything.

It is distinctive - there is nothing on the road that looks like a Prius. It's not a retro design, it's a futuristic design. Both inside and out it is cool looking. The controls, touch screen, instrument panel is trick stuff, and it's all easy and even fun to use.

It has range - our `04 is averaging about 48 mpg per 11.9 gallon tank. Do the math.

It is the future - the hybrid system generates electricity when you step on the brakes, instead of useless heat as in a conventional vehicle. As this technology becomes less expensive and more adaptable (as all technology does evenually) it's enherent efficiency will be applied to bigger vehicles, heavy trucks, and high performance cars. And someday when somebody figures out how to make hydrogen available, the electric platform on which the hybrid is based will be ready and developed. Prius owners are pioneers.

It makes you feel good - the environmental thing is cool, there are almost no emmisions, it's great not to spend so much on fuel, the price of which will continue to rise. You get a lot of attention, which is fun in itself. People are always interested in it, lots of parking lot visitors.


We had a first generation Prius, and we are now driving the second generation and love it for all the above. It's the perfect car for our family.

I also enjoy high performance. I have three motorcycles from 800 to 1800cc, each of which will blow the doors of 99% of all the cars on the road. Oh, and for the nice days I have an MR2 Spyder - yeah I guess I am a Toyota guy...


So, Fish, I guess when you try to put a pencil to the miles per gallon, the cost of fuel, the cost of the vehicle there are other ways to stretch your dollar. From my perspective the Prius is a profound bargain
 

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I won't try to convince you to buy a Prius. From you posting, you are not interested in helping to reduce air polution nor are you significantly interested in lowering the dependence on gasoline resources. The technology doesn't seem to be a big factor either. Nor do any of the technological innovations or toys seem important.

You only are interested in getting a car with pretty good gas mileage and very cheap purchase price. So, I think the best thing for you is to follow the advice of getting a good, clean Echo or one of the other used cars that get a reasonable good mpg figure. Check it out by taking it to an independent repair shop to go over it for possible problems (good insurance) then run the VIN number through to be sure it wasn't a dried out car from New Orleans. You might also get a copy of Consumer's Report and look at their listing of reliable used cars.

As to me. I'll take my Prius and am having fun with it every day.
 

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I'm on a waiting list for an 06, but when I test drove the car I *knew* it would be mine for these reasons:

--good for the environment

--great gas mileage

--the hatchback and leather option for the dog

--the dashboard makes me feel like I'm on the USS Enterprise

--being able to drive in the carpool lane

--it's bigger than the HCH

I'm driving a 1994 Civic with no mods so it's a BIG step up for me.

-Sunshine
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Old n Bold said:
I won't try to convince you to buy a Prius. From you posting, you are not interested in helping to reduce air polution nor are you significantly interested in lowering the dependence on gasoline resources.
-true... I could care less

You only are interested in getting a car with pretty good gas mileage and very cheap purchase price.
Absolutely false. My other choice is the SRT 300C 6.1L. I currently have a 5.9L Durango RT. Price and mileage are not important to me.

Only factor is that if the "only" redeeming quality of the car is a single aspect:
ie: acceleration or handling or mileage then it had better stomp the alternatives.

So far I'm not convinced the Prius is subtstantially better for economy than "comparable" vehicles.

For example, a Subaru Impreza is considerably faster, all wheel drive, fully loaded, and costs whole lot less (again) . Any loss in fuel economy is more than easly regained in the differential in purchase price.

Hope I am making myself clear.. my next car purchase needs to be interesting. The Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid and several "conventional" vehicles (ie: SRT) are in the running. They are all considering to be "cool" one way or another. Either fast or luxurious or bizarre etc...
 

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First, the Corolla has 1.8 litres.

The Echo/Yaris is a subcompact
The Corolla is a compact
The Prius is a midsize

Hence the price ladder. I'll also assume that you're in the US since you don't have a location. Toyota will only bring the 3dr Yaris hatchback so your other option is the Scion xA/xB for 5-dr hatchbacks. If you're in Canada, the Yaris is available with a 5dr config but is a tad pricey at $17,000 for an auto with A/C, ABS, p/w and keyless. It's fairly spacious but with the seats up, there's only 8.1 cu ft or half the space available on the Prius with the seats up.

That said, the Prius' official fuel economy rating is half of the Corolla and 60% that of the Yaris. It's also cleaner in emissions (AT-PZEV vs. ULEV for both cars).

Still need to be convinced?

A fully loaded Corolla LE in CAD is only $5,000 from the base price of a Prius. In the US, I'm guessing it's ~$2,000? or $3,000 from price of a loaded Corolla LE.

Space:
The Prius is 3" shorter than the Corolla but yet manages to almost equal the space of the Camry. It has more rear legroom than the Camry but less front legroom than the Camry. Headroom is similar. The relatively long wheelbase means a more comfortable, smoother ride although the suspension is tuned to "sport" over the comfort of say, a Camry XLE.

Storage:
It has plenty! Large centre console box with moveable shelf, upper glovebox with removeable shelf, lower glovebox with fixed shelf, dash-mounted box under stereo, overhead sunglass holder, front door pockets with bottle holders, hidden drawer under the centre console, underfloor cargo box and side underfloor storage bin.

Flexibility:
The Prius' 60/40 split folding seats fold flat without removing the headrests. Both front seats can also fully recline (headrest must be removed) to create a sleeping area. Or you could keep the rear seats up and fold the front seats to create a lounge chair.

Safety:
It comes with dual stage dual front airbags, ABS w/ EBD, Brake Assist, LED brakelights, tyre pressure monitoring system and traction control (TRAC) as standard. Side and side curtain airbags and Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) are optional. In addition, you may equip it with HID headlights and foglights. Crash test performance are also very good (NCAP, IIHS, NHSTA)

Comfort & Convenience:
It offers automatic climate control, steering wheel mounted audio and climate control (as well as nav/bluetooth if equipped), CD/MP3 with 6 speakers and AUX Input, Auto headlights (Canada), maplights, front door lamps, illuminated entry with fade out and illuminated vanity mirrors. Bluetooth connectivity, satellite navigation and automatic dimming rear view mirror with Homelink are optional. Most of these aren't available in either the Echo/Yaris or Corolla.

Features:
It has a Smart Key Entry system. Although optional, it's highly recommended as it allows locking/unlocking and start/stop of the vehicle leaving the fob safely tucked away in your purse or pocket. Bluetooth connectivity is a rarity in this price range (the new Passat is the only other in this price range).

Technology:
You're driving one of the most advanced cars on this side of a 7 series. It has a push button start to minimise theft and maximise convenience. Its throttle, brake and shifter are by-wire reducing weight. Regenerative braking captures energy that would've normally been wasted as heat caused by friction of the brake pads and converts it to electric potential energy for future consumption. A Power Split Device (PSD) means the Prius does away with conventional transmission and is the centre of power distribution. Two electric motors allow simultaneous charge/discharge of the battery keeping it at constant charge, thus maximising life. In this case, the engine can supply power to the wheels while "excess" power that isn't needed to propel the car is sent back to the battery. A thermos is incoporated into the engine's coolant system to store up to 3 litres of hot coolant. This coolant is then circulated the next time you start the car, reducing warm up time and hence reducing emissions and fuel consumption. A bladder in the fuel tank collapses as fuel is used prevent fuel vapour from forming and hence eliminating evaporative emissions.

Now is it worth the extra money?

Here's some final figures

I've spent $800 on fuel (it's almost a year) so far and used 900 litres of fuel. I've also spent $74 on maintenance stuff (which should be the same for the other two cars).
 

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Mr. Fish Antlers, I respectfully suggest that you just keep driving your Durango. Based on your stated requirements, you would not be happy with any hybrid; maybe not even the hybrid Highlander or the hybrid Lexus.

I say just bag it and keep driving what you have. Come on back when your life circumstances change and mileage is important to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
the prius is not a midsized car. you may want to classify it as one, but its still a compact in my books...

what.. did toyota add 1/2" to the length to "sneak" it into the midsize category? :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
BIF said:
Mr. Fish Antlers, I respectfully suggest that you just keep driving your Durango. Based on your stated requirements, you would not be happy with any hybrid; maybe not even the hybrid Highlander or the hybrid Lexus.

I say just bag it and keep driving what you have. Come on back when your life circumstances change and mileage is important to you.
:roll: .. uh ... right :roll:
 

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Re: Prius is more than MPG

Don Neal said:
I also enjoy high performance. I have three motorcycles from 800 to 1800cc, each of which will blow the doors of 99% of all the cars on the road.
I'm one of those biker hooligans as well. Oddly, the Prius will blow the mpg numbers off any of the bikes I've had and have. People are very curious if I tell them I took the Prius as the scoot drinks too much fuel. :shock:

Back on topic:


Prius isn't a Echo nor is it a Corolla.

It isn't a Hummer either.

Why the comparison to vehicles it ain't?

(fwiw, I could get six John Deere riding lawn mowers for one Prius - but why?)
 

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fish_antlers said:
the prius is not a midsized car. you may want to classify it as one, but its still a compact in my books.
Your books don't jive with the government's guidelines. That's okay for your own decisionmaking process, but you are in fact WRONG. The Prius is a midsized car based on interior room.

As I said, just bag it and stick with your Durango. Nobody here is going to convince you that any hybrid is worth your money. As I said before, you'll be much happier with a bigger vehicle, at least until your life circumstances (or the oil supply chains) change for the worse. When you cannot afford a gallon of gasoline, come on back, and we'll talk.
 

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fish_antlers said:
the prius is not a midsized car. you may want to classify it as one, but its still a compact in my books...

what.. did toyota add 1/2" to the length to "sneak" it into the midsize category? :roll:
fish_antlers said:
BIF said:
Mr. Fish Antlers, I respectfully suggest that you just keep driving your Durango. Based on your stated requirements, you would not be happy with any hybrid; maybe not even the hybrid Highlander or the hybrid Lexus.

I say just bag it and keep driving what you have. Come on back when your life circumstances change and mileage is important to you.
:roll: .. uh ... right :roll:
I was just being honest. I truly believe you'll be wasting your time and money on any hybrid currently available. Nobody here will convince you otherwise. So give it up, sir. I'm not going to bother trying.

Oh yeah, one other thing...your use of condescending smilies and constant attempts to avoid a dignified conversation is just mean. You've been trying to "dis" us and our car ever since your first post.

Therefore, I have decided that this is the proper time for me to announce to the rest of the forum:

TROLL ALERT!!

In my opinion, further discussion with a troll is fruitless. Please enjoy your Durango. Have fun, be safe, and the best of luck to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
BIF said:
fish_antlers said:
the prius is not a midsized car. you may want to classify it as one, but its still a compact in my books...

what.. did toyota add 1/2" to the length to "sneak" it into the midsize category? :roll:
[quote="fish_antlers":1k3z3vdg]
BIF said:
Mr. Fish Antlers, I respectfully suggest that you just keep driving your Durango. Based on your stated requirements, you would not be happy with any hybrid; maybe not even the hybrid Highlander or the hybrid Lexus.

I say just bag it and keep driving what you have. Come on back when your life circumstances change and mileage is important to you.
:roll: .. uh ... right :roll:
I was just being honest. I truly believe you'll be wasting your time and money on any hybrid currently available. Nobody here will convince you otherwise. So give it up, sir. I'm not going to bother trying.

Oh yeah, one other thing...your use of condescending smilies and constant attempts to avoid a dignified conversation is just mean. You've been trying to "dis" us and our car ever since your first post.

Therefore, I have decided that this is the proper time for me to announce to the rest of the forum:

TROLL ALERT!!

In my opinion, further discussion with a troll is fruitless. Please enjoy your Durango. Have fun, be safe, and the best of luck to you.[/quote:1k3z3vdg]

oh please :roll:

troll alert nothing... I run a website far larger than this one.. check the link in my signature.

I'm asking a reasonable question that lots of my friends and coworkers have asked as well.

When they consider purchasing a car, and they think about a Hybrid.. they wonder to themselves.. why bother?

Heck.. even Consumer Reports still recommends against it for the very reasons I have stated.

Sheeesh... how holier than thou are ye? :roll:

Is that what happens on this site? The second someone tries to ask some questions they are called a troll?
 

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I've owned a Corvette, a supercharged Grand Prix, and a GS400. I love performance. The Prius performs in surprising ways that satisfy me. The handling is impressive - very light and tossable. The unsprung weight of the suspension is light, thus the fun handling charateristics. If you like to modify cars with aftermarket wheels, the Prius needs lightweight wheels for best handling and fuel economy. The fuel economy achievement of the Prius is a type of performance that I really enjoy too. It's fun to use EV mode to drive around without the engine on. I would suggest that you rent one for a day and see what you think. Not all Toyota dealers rent cars. You will need to find a dealer near you that does rent them. Just a phone call to the dealer will let you know. The Prius is a fun car to drive: the technology + fuel economy + handling make it a very enjoyable car to drive. Go ahead, give it a try, you just might like it.
 
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