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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pulse And Glide Mode Selection

Let's say I am driving. If I could press a bottom called APG (Automatic Pulse and Glide) would be great. The APG will solve a lot of my concerns decently. I think Toyota can make it. They did more difficult things already. Advantages: 1. No distraction looking at traffic. 2. Over 55 mpg at all times. 1+2= NO frustration about the purchase.
 
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Rmarchena said:
Pulse And Glide Mode Selection

Let's say I am driving. If I could press a bottom called APG (Automatic Pulse and Glide) would be great. The APG will solve a lot of my concerns decently. I think Toyota can make it. They did more difficult things already. Advantages: 1. No distraction looking at traffic. 2. Over 55 mpg at all times. 1+2= NO frustration about the purchase.
After reading your posts, I wonder if your brain isn't stuck in "pulse and glide mode"! :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sticker Stuck

Sticker Stuck

Instead, I got stuck in the manufacturer's sticker that states something that you did not get either. The famous 50 and 60. I want to get all what I paid for. Your missing the direction of my posts that unfortunely goes in the direction of your benefit at this time.
 

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Re: Sticker Stuck

Rmarchena said:
Sticker Stuck

Instead, I got stuck in the manufacturer's sticker that states something that you did not get either. The famous 50 and 60. I want to get all what I paid for. Your missing the direction of my posts that unfortunely goes in the direction of your benefit at this time.
How many times does it have to be said? The mileage *estimates* are NOT Toyota's. They're calculated by the EPA and the manufacturers are required to put them on the stickers. I've *never* seen a car that actually got the EPA estimates under normal driving.

As evidenced by last weekend's pulse and glide experiment, the estimates can be exceeded but it may take driving technique that will drive anyone else on the road batty. I don't know that the higher mileage is worth the potential road rage incidents.

Just drive the car and enjoy it. If you're that frustrated with the car, you need to sell it and move on.
 

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We've told you about the EPA estimates before. That is pretty common knowledge right now. Even the EPA will tell you what their testing regime includes, and frankly it couldn't be more unrepresentative of how people drive.

The only thing which gives the EPA estimates credibility is that they are very standardized. You can compare relative efficiency between cars in the same class using their numbers, you just have to put out of your mind that they represent MPG, and you have to think of them as an indicator of relative performance.

In this instance, wouldn't percentage difference be a good way to think of the MPG performance of a Prius as compared to say a Taurus?

I'm giddy to be getting 47+ mpg on a regular basis. The fuel price savings I'm getting is making my principal payment on the car each month. That is savings well spent.

And I'm not being a Prius soldier, I'm being realistic. The Prius is a machine, and machines do not perform perfectly. Point out one that does. Probably that perpetual motion device you have in your basement, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am giving a solution. Not a confrontation, Please.....

I am giving a solution. Not a confrontation, Please.....

Let me repost my initial statement, Please.....

Pulse And Glide Mode Selection

Let's say I am driving. If I could press a bottom called APG (Automatic Pulse and Glide) would be great. The APG will solve a lot of my concerns decently. I think Toyota can make it. They did more difficult things already. Advantages: 1. No distraction looking at traffic. 2. Over 55 mpg at all times. 1+2= NO frustration about the purchase.


Is there something wrong with that?

Okey, EPA force or obligate automanufactures to present what EPA wants. Fine, I acknowledge it even I dont agree. But, where is Toyota Customer's satisfaction? I believe, you know where.

With the integration of the automatica controls for Pulse and Glide (APG) la discrepancy will be resolved. Is that wrong?...For you guys, of course yes!!!!! For me, it is just fine. APG will be part of my Prius 2007 Version when I complete my sketch of Flawlessing the Prius again.
 

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A glide button would be wasted on you.

You don't know how to drive the car. You'd never know when to use the button.

It would just be something else for you to complain about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh my goodness

Oh my goodness Oh my goodness Oh my goodness

You are right somehow. I dont usualy drive my Prius. My wife does it.
And guess what!!!!

The average driver does not know how to drive it safely, and that is why they dont get the mpg promised. The Prius was meant to be driven by some part of the market?, in that respect which is not good. You created the premises to create another negative point.

I just observe my wife average. It is crazy. She is a normal driver that use the heat in the winter and the ac in the summer. They have to be use it.. In that respect, at two seasons left the Prius will perform good? Maybe. That is another negative point. At only 50% of the year we will see over 50's. Come on!!!!

Do you want more?...Wait for my next post and be kind to comment according to common sense, the less common of all the senses.
 

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COME ON PEOPLE! Remember YMMV -- no two people will get the exact results, and as one has said the EPA number is just a way to compare vehicles. It just like zero to 60 times with a manual transmission - unless you are a race car driver with the ability to shift at the exact optimum point you will not acheive those times -- live with it.

BTW - I am not a hypermileage person that goes out of their way to get the ultimate maximum mpg out of the car. I sometimes accelerate hard, I sometimes use the AC, and I sometimes pass people to get where I am going. Given that, I average around 50 mpg in my '02 which is rated by the EPA at 52/45 or 48 average. I attribute my mileage to the hilly terrain where I live which enables me to top up the battery before I get into stop-go traffic in town. But as said before, your mileage may vary.
 

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I actually like the idea of an automatic pulse and glide button... it's a decent suggestion.

On the other hand, we consistently (since March '05) have gotten avg. of about 54-56 mpg. We drive it 120 miles a day...the AC is on constantly. I guess we're lucky enough that we have so many back roads where the speed limit is 35, and highway driving tends to be in traffic.

I find it sort of fun to play with the gas pedal to get the "bars" to spike to 99.9mpg, but even without thinking about it, we've been lucky to get even better than expected mileage.
 

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I like the idea of an automated pulse/glide setting as well. It could be like cruise only it would allow the speed to vary by 5 mph or so.

Also it would be nice if the car's computer tied into the nav system and it would expend more energy from the battery when it knew you were approaching the top of a hill allowing more room to regenerate on the way down the other side.
 

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Rmarchena had a pretty good idea. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. IT WAS A JOKE Rmar!!!!!!
 

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Re: I am giving a solution. Not a confrontation, Please.....

Rmarchena said:
2. Over 55 mpg at all times.
You don't understand what the "Pulse and Glide" is.
The results of the 1400 miles Marathon Run shows 12.5km/L(29.4MPG) pulsing mileage. The 110MPG result shows 73% of the gliding distance.

"Over 55 mpg at all times" is almost impossible to achieve.

[email protected]
 

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Actually, I've also been mulling over the possibility that Toyota could build lessons learned from the recent mileage marathon into the computer programming. This "pulse and glide" mode (call it economy mode if you don't want to scare people into thinking they have to drive wierd) could do at least two simple things that would take a lot of the effort off the driver.

1. A true glide mode when the accelerator pedal is off. No simulated engine drag. This would have benefits in many situations, and is in fact how the EV1 worked. It might confuse some drivers new to the car, so making the driver push a button before it happens would keep the surprise level down. It would eliminate the most tedious part of pulse and glide for the driver.

2. Don't supplement engine power with battery power unless the accelerator pedal is fully (or almost fully) depressed. This would make the car seem a bit sluggish (but that's not surprising if you push a button labeled "economy"). Even better, when the accelerator is 1/2 down or more, take that opportunity to recharge the battery and be less concerned about low battery levels at other times. This would reduce the effort in the pulse phase of pulse and glide as you wouldn't have to worry about pushing too hard and using battery power.

I think Toyota could learn a lot more from the marathoners about things an economy setting could do. I think these economy practices would even help average drivers who just want to drive and don't have the skills or patience to do a lot of pulse and glide. Mike's suggestion for a variable speed cruise control (over a small range) could give the computers enough leeway to make big gains.

On the other side, a sport setting could use the battery much more agressively both for recharging during simulated engine drag, and for quick, hard punching acceleration. It could keep the engine revs up a bit higher even when power is not requested so that the spool up time of the engine could be minimized when the driver says "go" with his foot.

I think the Honda hybrids had a sport/econ (or something like that) switch for the CVT behavior when it was first introduced. So there's some precedent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Pulse And Glide must be made by the car and not by the driver as a part of the computing package. It is well known the hazard created by non-fluent traffic speeds and distraction when you Pulse And Glide manualy.

I posted once: "My Prius improves my Jeep". I was pulsing and gliding in my Jeep and certainly I improved the mpg in my Jeep. But, I had to drive the Jeep as I do the Prius. Unsafely.

Pulse And Glide Mode Selection must be included in a future Prius version. Better for the MPG at no cost in terms of safety.
 

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Re: Oh my goodness

Rmarchena said:
You are right somehow. I dont usualy drive my Prius. My wife does it.
Oh my goodness Oh my goodness Oh my goodness

You're actually married?! There is hope for the single guys out there! :wink:

But really, maybe that's that problem right there. You don't really drive the Prius. That's why you have so many misconceptions and ignorance about the car. Maybe you should ask your wife about the car sometimes. :mrgreen:

Back on topic: instead of an "APG" button, why not just program Pulse and Glide into the cruise control? That's where it would make the most sense, as opposed to yet another button drivers have to pay attention to.

Programming APG in the mode where you don't pay attention to the gas peddle anyways is more intuitive. Especially since Cruise Control is supposed to get you the best mileage (in general) anyways.
 

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Rmarchena said:
Pulse And Glide must be made by the car and not by the driver as a part of the computing package. It is well known the hazard created by non-fluent traffic speeds and distraction when you Pulse And Glide manualy.

I posted once: "My Prius improves my Jeep". I was pulsing and gliding in my Jeep and certainly I improved the mpg in my Jeep. But, I had to drive the Jeep as I do the Prius. Unsafely.
How is Pulse and Glide unsafe driving? And you can't really "glide" in your Jeep anyways. You can "Pulse and Coast", but not really Glide, no? As I understand "Glide", that's when there's no battery recharging going on. In Coast, the energy that would usually go into engine braking in normal cars is captured to recharge the battery. But in Glide, just enough battery power is used so that there is no net energy going to or from the battery. The end result is as if there is no engine braking at all, and the vehicle is just at the mercy of Mr. Newton. So because the Jeep do not have the synergy drive, it can only coast (with engine braking), instead of Glide.

Either way, as long as you are still paying attention to your driving conditions, Gliding or Coasting should still be very safe driving, if you already are a safe driver.
 

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The point of the marathon using Pulse and Glide was to show the possibilities achieveable. Any car can exceed the EPA values especially if it is driven more conservatively than the EPA does. In the case of the marathon the targeted top speed was 40 mph although I occasionally hit 43 or so on downhill sections. This speed is certainly more conservative than the EPA test. I am not advocating that everyone use P&G techniques all the time but its there if you are on a suitable road and want to try it.
The point is that the driver has a good deal of control in the fuel economy that they achieve. The media and owners often blame the car and EPA when they get substantially lower fuel economy than the EPA advertised. Drivers need to wake up and realize it not the EPA or cars fault but their own driving style (baring some mechanical problem). With the new oil price records being set you see more and more stories about people who have to sacrafice in order to buy fuel. Before they stop buying food and medication perhaps they should modify their driving style. How often have you seen someone idle a car unnessarily, go through a drive through and park and eat lunch while the A/C and car run. Accelerate toward a stop sign or traffic light and then come to an abrupt stop only to get 1 car length ahead as they weave through traffic. Or perhaps trying to improve their quarter mile time as they pull away from the light with the 200HP + sedan they purchased. The US imports more than a half billion dollars of oil every day. I forget the current fleet average fuel economy of cars sold but believe it is somewhere around 23 mpg. Since most do not get the EPA values I would suspect that the whole US car average (old and new) is perhaps in the 15-17 mpg range. Just imagine if we were to improve it 400% to around 60 mpg through purchasing fuel efficient vehicles and driving conservatively then we would eliminate our need for imported oil and that half billion dollars a day would be available for other consumer goods. Talk about an economic boom. Our overall family average for all vehicles is above the 60 mpg mark thanks to the most miles being driven in a Insight. Have fun, RIck
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
that is a good one

That is a good one...Bravo!!!!!!

Long time nobobdy hitted that sharp and that hard...

Mr. Reece, Welcome to the forum..
 

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Re: Sticker Stuck

Rmarchena said:
Sticker Stuck

Instead, I got stuck in the manufacturer's sticker that states something that you did not get either. The famous 50 and 60. I want to get all what I paid for. Your missing the direction of my posts that unfortunely goes in the direction of your benefit at this time.

EPA tests are used to compare one car to another. It does not tell you what you will get with your options, driving conditions, or driving habits.


Published info from Toyota on the subject:

http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynerg ... ng2004.pdf
(see the end of the newsletter - page 5, special feature "Tips for better Prius gas mileage")

Prius Fuel Economy: Explaining the EPA Ratings
Toyota explains what the EPA ratings actually mean, and lists ways to improve your MPG
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toy ... sage/71431
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pri ... ssage/2742
http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=1079

Prius Fuel Economy Factsheet:
http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/p ... conomy.pdf

Can I expect to get over 50MPG in the new Prius?
(see question #6): http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/prius/faq.html


meanwhile, on the topic of published EPA ratings, I suggest reading
the following article (with plenty of citations for source data):
http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/reports ... ehood2.pdf
"FUEL ECONOMY FALSEHOODS: How government misrepresentation of fuel
economy hinders efforts to reduce global warming and US dependence on
foreign oil" by the Bluewater Network, 2002
 
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