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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Prius Electric Motor Insuficiency

After reading dozens of justifications, explanations, excuses, and survival recommendations for higher mpg counts, is inevitable to conclude that the Prius Electric Motor is Insuficient to handle the weight of the vehicle, passangers, and loads in most horizontal paving conditions and at all incline paving conditions.

Pulse and glide is just an smart and circunstantial procedure to use the impulse of the gas engine's production.

That insuficiency also extents to the rpm capability. The maximum and circunstantial limited weights that the Prius can handle in the electric mode also limited in mph due to the lack of higher rpm's.

If you increase the size of the electric motor you will have to increase the batteries capacity and its weight also. That weight will go against the fundamental criteria to formulate a light vehicle.

At this point, Toyota Motor Co. is trapped its own cage of weight dealing.

There is a missing part in this marvelous machine that also is missing in regular cars. The hybrids represent a temporary marriage of electric and gas engines. How long that marriage will last? No long.

Both systems marriaged and separated have a common problem. They have a missing part that could multiply the produced power using mechanical configurations instead of alternative energy sources.

Several posts ago, I posted something in reference to a new transmission that I was working on. I stated my reserves about the planetary concept.
Also posted about rear wheel drive.

Well, finaly, I finished the design concept. I got to increase the output of the planetary transmission by a minimum of 12 times a maximum 18 times with the addition of just mechanical elements that are made of conventional materials.

With the increase of power production/generation of the existing Prius's Design System to 12x the electric motor will be able to work more time, will handle more weight, and will require less battery demand and size.

Because the lower demand and size of the batteries, solar energy will require less room and production of energy.

The prototype test will start by November 15 in my Jeep, Grand Cherokee Laredo, 1998. Our predictions cover to reduce the acceleration system also, due to the future excess of power it will have.

I will keep you posted periodicaly. I will not be able to post like I use to do. Besides the project I have some family problems that I have to solve.

Thanks.
 

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News Flash!

Rmarchena said:
Prius Electric Motor Insuficiency

After reading dozens of justifications, explanations, excuses, and survival recommendations for higher mpg counts, is inevitable to conclude that the Prius Electric Motor is Insuficient to handle the weight of the vehicle, passangers, and loads in most horizontal paving conditions and at all incline paving conditions.
Good thing there's also a gasoline engine in the Prius.

Rmarchena, drop in and let us know what you've developed when you get something working. Be sure to post pictures!
 

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What the hell is this dude talking about, is he smoking something while he writes? The Prius is a great here and now car that delivers what it promises and then some.
 

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Mark Prius said:
You're supposed to ignore the moron.

I couldnt agree more. For weeks now I shake my head as more and more people (mostly regulars) reply to this fool. Everyone, just ignore this guy already jeez. :roll: This is the first and last post I'll make in one of his threads...
 

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Today marks 100,000 miles driven since buying my Prius. They were miles I would have traveled anyway.

This guy that's been harassing us lately is very upset about how clean all those miles were and how much gas I didn't use. He's still stuck trying to figure out how to improve his traditional vehicle and we've been promoting a better design for 5 years already. Now he's becoming desperate, realizing the technology used in Prius has been so successful that Toyota is planning to make it available in every vehicle they offer.

Hearing his wild claims about us making excuses are actually rather amusing, since they clearly contradict real-world data. Prius offers a genuine improvement, plain & simple.

Today's claim that the motor isn't powerful enough is a great example of intentionally trying to distract attention, making an issue out of nothing. Since when is even more power needed? And notice how he didn't address cost or reliability with his proposed "improvement". This is just another sad attempt to discredit how well HSD has performed under real-world conditions.
 

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People sometimes get carried away and criticize design and products because they don't deliver more than they do. That's not right. If the current hybrids do not improve anymore than they have, especially the Prius,, they will still beat everything else on the market. Why? Because hybrids are the only vehicles that give something back. Whenever I drive my Prius and let up on the accelerator or step on the brake pedal, I get something back! My other cars give me nothing. NOTHING.
 

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Prius is good for what it is.

I know we shouldn't reply, but...

It doesn't matter how efficient you make the transmission, it can only TRANSMIT as much power as was put in to it. Even if you made a 100% efficient transmission, you would still be limited to the power supplied by the engine. (Or, in the case of hybrids, by the pairing of combustion engine and electric motor.) The planetary transmission is one of the most efficient available; even if you found a 100% efficient transmission, mileage wouldn't increase by an enormous amount, nor would performance. A transmission cannot 'multiply' the energy put in to it. At best, it can 'convert' one form of energy into another. (Such as reducing power, but increasing torque, to improve acceleration; as most transmissions do in low gear.)

Solar energy: Is great. 'Free' energy. All we have to do is collect it. But, according to the University of Oregon, the average amount of solar power distributed over the face of the earth is 164 Watts per square meter per 24 hours. If we assume just a 'sunny' Summer day at 40 degrees N. latitude, it becomes 600 Watts. Over 8 hours, that is 4.8 kilowatt-hours per square meter. Or, the approximate energy capacity of 0.13 gallons of gasoline. (A little over a pint, or almost half a Liter.) At 60 miles per gallon, the Prius can go 7.8 miles on 0.13 gallons of gasoline. If it takes you 8 hours to travel that distance (because you're talking about powering solely by solar power, not storing it batteries,) that means that solar power will be able to keep a Prius going a whopping 1 mile per hour on a sunny day.

Of course, the Prius has more than 1 square meter of roof space available. By my quick measurement, I calculate about 3 square meters. Now you're up to an average of 24 miles traversed over the 8 hour day. Oh, and this is based on 100% efficient solar panels. The most efficient photovoltaic cells currently available are only about 40% efficient. (And most scientists seem to agree that 50% is the most efficient possible with current technology.)

Finally, complaining that the Prius' electric motor is insufficient. Of course it is. It wasn't designed to power the Prius alone. Of course, it is capable of pushing the Prius up to 42 miles per hour, and on its relatively 'small' battery pack, going up to 3 miles on electric power alone is no small feat. (100 lb. battery pack, compared to the discontinued 2-seater GM EV1's 1300-pound monster battery that gives that lightweight vehicle a range of only about 100 miles. The battery alone on the EV1 is more than one-third of the vehicle's total weight!) In fact, the EV1, the ultimate electric vehicle, uses approximately 115 Watt-hours per mile at 45 mph. That means that if its only charging was through solar power, it would need a one-meter solar panel charging for 8 hours to move it for barely more than half an hour of driving. (And would only go fifteen minutes at 60 mph.)

Now, if you have really come up with some major breakthrough, feel free to let us know the results. But don't bother us by complaining about how bad the Prius is when it's the best thing available. (I could complain that my computer isn't fast enough, and that in order to be any good, I'd need at LEAST a 20GHz processor; but it doesn't do me any good right now, since there aren't any 20GHz processors.)
 

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ehurtly has made some excellent comments which should eliminate any more posts of solar power, at least for the next few years. I will withold any comments about Toyotas plans of using hybrid power in all their vehicles until the stats are released about the power supply being used in the Camry. If it is the synergy system used in the Prius I say great. If however they go the way they have in the Highlander and Lexas and as Honda has done with the Accord then I say it is not worth the money as it would just be for performance and do little for conservation and the environment.
 

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Kirby... This "person" is obviously an online TROLL getting his kicks from controversy. His posts are best ignored. Thus far, I've never seen any useful information from this source
 

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hyperion said:
ehurtly has made some excellent comments which should eliminate any more posts of solar power, at least for the next few years. I will withold any comments about Toyotas plans of using hybrid power in all their vehicles until the stats are released about the power supply being used in the Camry. If it is the synergy system used in the Prius I say great. If however they go the way they have in the Highlander and Lexas and as Honda has done with the Accord then I say it is not worth the money as it would just be for performance and do little for conservation and the environment.
The Lexus and Highlander *DO* use the 'Hybrid Synergy Drive', almost identical to the Prius. (The Ford Escape uses Toyota's older hybrid system, as in the 2003 and earlier Prius.) In the Highlander, it is used as a way to increase mileage. In the Lexus, however, it is used to increase power. I assume THAT is what you were referring to, not the actual technology.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi, Mr. Snyder:
Even we have had some differences I think you are a gentleman. Thanks your request. I will keep you posted thru a separate channel.

Hi, Grovey:
Thanks for your wishes about my problems. I agree with you when you say: "Anger is the first sign of incompetence".

For the rest of Prius's insurgency:
I have been working in the transmission since a got the car eight months ago. Besides my posting I was working without mentioning until I had something realy good in hands. Maybe I love my car more than you guys.
If your interpretation of that is to be a troll and/or moron, you have a problem of perception. Anyway, it is just your perception that is close to be blank like you use to say.
 

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ehurtley said:
(The Ford Escape uses Toyota's older hybrid system, as in the 2003 and earlier Prius.)
Can you cite a source to support this statement? Ford has said that the Escape's hybrid system is their own design, and they licensed Toyota's patents to avoid patent infringement (probably because they knew they were already infringing). Just because Ford licensed Toyota's patents doesn't mean their system is identical to Toyota's. It's easy to infringe on a patent even though your implementation is completely different.

In the Highlander, it is used as a way to increase mileage. In the Lexus, however, it is used to increase power. I assume THAT is what you were referring to, not the actual technology.
It's not correct to say that the two systems are tuned differently. They have identical specifications. Both the Highlander Hybrid AWD and Lexus RX400h have 1) identical system horsepower 2) identical 0-60 performance, and 3) identical EPA estimated mileage.
 

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ehurtley said:
The Lexus and Highlander *DO* use the 'Hybrid Synergy Drive', almost identical to the Prius. (The Ford Escape uses Toyota's older hybrid system, as in the 2003 and earlier Prius.) In the Highlander, it is used as a way to increase mileage. In the Lexus, however, it is used to increase power. I assume THAT is what you were referring to, not the actual technology.
Ford uses their own system, and part of it is similar to the Toyota system (somewhere between THS and HSD) and part of it is much better thought out (packaging and space usage).

Also... Both the Highlander and HX400 use HSD to increase power, not for economy. Ford has gone on record to say that they will concentrate on hybrids for economy, not performance... so I don't expect to see V6 hybrids from them anytime soon.
 

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priusenvy or Jonnycat26,
Can either of you point me to good design documents on the Ford hybrid? I've been surprised to find it's even harder to find good facts on Ford's design than on Toyota's (despite the language barrier of the latter).
 
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