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Discussion Starter #1
Sunday we got a christmas tree display in our 2002 Prius when trying to start it. Second time it started fine, but the lights were still on.

I was able to retrieve a P3191 from the computer, and after clearing the code have had no further problems. I am aware of the TSB about fuel pressure, ECM and the like. My question is has anyone else seen this happen and not had it recur? Or did you immediately just take the car in and have the work done?
 

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Get it fixed before the warranty runs out (80K for the hybrid stuff I think).

Now that the weather is warming, it probably won't happen much, but next winter could be annoying.
 

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Don't wait to repair

If this is the TSB where they replace the fuel tank and the PCB, don't wait. The PCB in the hybrid module is covered for the longer period, but I think the gas tank expires with the 36/36,000 part of the warranty, and it could be several hundred dollars.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, I did buy the extended warranty, so in theory I'm covered. We're at about 58K now and have seen no problems since Sunday. It was down to around 36F this morning and it started fine...but will check with the dealer.
 

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I've had the christmas tree you speak of with my engine stalling/not starting at startup - just turned off the car and turned it on and it was running fine again (but had the check enigine light still on). Took it to the dealer, pulled the P3191 code, and even though I had the usual TSB in front of me, they claimed that it was just a bad 12v battery! They said they ordered me one, but they never notified me that it was in, nor have I had it installed (no battery problems)... Haven't seen the Christmas tree thing again (was during the winter, last year, maybe the year before...)

Here's the relevant TSB:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toy ... 011-03.pdf
TSB EG011-03
June 12, 2003, Master, Hybrid & M.I.L. "ON" P3190/P3191 & P3101, 2001-2003 Prius. Replaces TSB EG012-02. (Fix: may replace circuit opening relay assembly, ECM (engine control module), and/or fuel tank assembly.)


I'll also point out:
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Toyota/11035 ... ges/50.gif or
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toy ... 050-04.gif
TSB EG050-04
December 20, 2004. ENGINE OIL SPECIFICATIONS. 2001-2005 Prius. (Incorrect engine oil viscosity or improper fill level may result in a M.I.L. "ON" condition (most common Diagnostic Trouble Code P3191 "Engine does not start"). Use SAE 5W-30 API grade SL "Energy Conserving" oil and use proper fill quantity.)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, engine has Mobil 1 5w30 and I only give the dealer 3.5 qts for the oil change, so it's not that.

Since I cleared the code from the computer I'm betting they might not even be willing to do the troubleshoot unless it happens again. We will see, 60K isn't very far from now.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update: It happened again!

Dealer didn't want to promise repair would be covered under my ToyotaCARE Platinum plan (I have 59K miles). Wanted to charge me a minimum $42 to diagnose, then they'd ask the ToyotaCARE people if they'd be willing to fix, pretty please (the ToyotaCARE contract specifically includes relays AND the fuel tank/fuel pump).

After carefully reviewing the symptoms, wife and I decided to fix it ourselves. We came to the conclusion the only logical problem that could explain the behavior was the Circuit Opening Relay (why they call a normally-open relay an "Opening" relay is beyond me). This conclusion was based on the fact that the VIN of the car is too high for the ECM to be the culprit, and the symptoms (non-start on first try only, then runs fine) didn't support the fuel tank/pump theory. Also, the coolant temperature according to my scan tool was too high for it to be the ECM.

The dealer wanted $60+ for the relay (90987-02012), I found a GP-Sorensen brand equivalent part (41-5154) for $18.99 at AutoZone. This is a very ordinary SPST, normally open 12v relay. There are four or five identical parts in the same box, controlling fans and the horn, among other things. AutoZone lists this as a normally stocked part at their stores, though the first store I visited could not find theirs (the computer said they had one).

It's literally a five-minute repair, you open the fuse/relay box under the hood, pop out the old relay, and pop in the new one. When I tested the old relay it seemed to work fine, but since the problem was intermittent anyway I figured it was cheap insurance. Since the deductable on the extended warranty is $50 I figured this was the cheapest solution.

I'm holding on to the original relay and if this does not fix the problem I'll drop the old one back in and reschedule with the dealer service department.
 

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Engine Does Not Start is pretty generic. Yes, it could be the opening relay, which I believe is the relay that cuts off the fuel, but it could be lots of other stuff, including updated programming on the ECM. Unfortunately for the classic, the only way to update the programming is to replace the ECM entirely.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dan, you're right it could have been the ECM. However, the TSB lists a VIN where the ECM change took place and our car is newer than that.

Given the data available, the relay was the only logical solution, but we'll see what happens. It was about 6 weeks between occurrances last time.
 

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hyperion said:
Did you possibly try a 2nd dealer when the first questioned the warranty coverage?
Toyota Extra Care Platinum Plan states that it does not cover diagnostics... $42 sounds about right, although some dealers will waive the diagnostics fee if a warranteeable repair is needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Update

FYI no repeat failures since replacing the Circuit Opening Relay. Car goes in for 60K service tomorrow.
 

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"Toyota Extra Care Platinum Plan states that it does not cover diagnostics... $42 sounds about right, although some dealers will waive the diagnostics fee if a warranteeable repair is needed."

Lousy arrangement. This gives the dealer an incentive to claim nothing is wrong. If I had to pay one cent for a warrantee problem, I'd go to small claims court if necessary. The actual words I got when I bought the car is "it covers everything." I'm holding him to it.
 

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P 3191

I have a 2001 Prius - I find it extremly irritating that I have gotten this code 4 times in the past 6 months. It clears itself up - but I am worried that if I attempt to take it into the dealer with the knowledge I have from reading all these postings that they will still not know what to do.

I cannot see spending a bunch of money on something that should not have been a problem in the first place.

I am also getting a code P0420 dealing with the catelist. Anyone else have this problem? Again, I am worried that my dealer will not know what they are talking about!
 

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http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=4571


In a few posts down I wrote about my experience with the dealer and this error code. They didn't seem to know what they were talking about. I even showed them the TSB and also asked if they could call Toyota direct if they were unsure of how to resolve the recurring warning light problem. All I got from them and their diagnostics fee is that they couldn't tell what is wrong but they cleared the code and if it happens again to bring it back and they'll look some more.



Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 

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Re: P 3191

northwst said:
I have a 2001 Prius - I find it extremly irritating that I have gotten this code 4 times in the past 6 months. It clears itself up - but I am worried that if I attempt to take it into the dealer with the knowledge I have from reading all these postings that they will still not know what to do.

I cannot see spending a bunch of money on something that should not have been a problem in the first place.

I am also getting a code P0420 dealing with the catelist. Anyone else have this problem? Again, I am worried that my dealer will not know what they are talking about!

You don't state where you are, or your mileage...

US TSB EG017-03
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toy ... 017-03.pdf
Nov. 14, 2003, M.I.L. "ON" DTC P0420, 2001 Prius. (cause: ECM software logic error, possible fix is replace ECM and Front Exhaust Pipe Assembly)
ECM is covered under the Federal Emissions warranty for 96 months/80,000 miles
Front Exhaust Pipe is covered under the Federal Emissions Warranty for 36 months/36,000 miles, or under the CA/MA Emissions Warranty for 84 months/70,000 miles

If I can find it, so should your dealer.
 
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