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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I am a Toyota salesman at a dealership here in Texas.
We have had an '04 TRAC unit on our lot now for a little
while and had, heretofore, not offered it for sale becuse we
wanted to have something for potential buyers to drive when
they visited our store. We have had a great response and
have consequently written up a load of orders. It seems
now however that most of the people coming in to drive are
from other areas. The rarity of a dealer with a unit that they
can drive brings them to us but they return home to write
up their orders.
While we would like to get everyone's business we all know
that isn't realistic and since our orders are tapering off our
owner has decided to make our Prius available for sale.

It has option package #4, fabric guard, a rear
bumper protector,wheel locks, the M5 carpet mat
set and it is the Driftwood Pearl color.

Since delivery times are so far out and demand is so
high the only way the owner/boss agreed to let
this one go was if we added a 2K market adjustment
to it, which essentially means 2K over sticker.
Sticker on it is $22,128.

Of course buying a car for more than sticker
isn't something everyone will wish to do, it is
mainly a way for someone to acquire one around
6 months early. I guess if you currently drive
a gas hog and you put a lot of miles on your car
the fuel savings over six months could justify
it.

Please contact me on my cell number first and
we can discuss the car, if you find further interest
I will tell you how to reach me at the dealership
to continue the process. As a commissioned saleman
I want to be sure that my efforts in finding a buyer
are not spent in placing that buyer in the hands of
one of my co-workers, I'm sure you understand.

If you feel my posting here might be inappropriate
I hope you'll understand that it's not only an attempt
to sell a car but an chance to help someone get that
Prius they have been wanting a lot sooner as well.

Fred
512-771-0297
 

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hoss said:
Hello,

I am a Toyota salesman at a dealership here in Texas.
We have had an '04 TRAC unit on our lot now for a little
while and had, heretofore, not offered it for sale becuse we
wanted to have something for potential buyers to drive when
they visited our store. We have had a great response and
have consequently written up a load of orders. It seems
now however that most of the people coming in to drive are
from other areas. The rarity of a dealer with a unit that they
can drive brings them to us but they return home to write
up their orders.
While we would like to get everyone's business we all know
that isn't realistic and since our orders are tapering off our
owner has decided to make our Prius available for sale.

It has option package #4, fabric guard, a rear
bumper protector,wheel locks, the M5 carpet mat
set and it is the Driftwood Pearl color.

Since delivery times are so far out and demand is so
high the only way the owner/boss agreed to let
this one go was if we added a 2K market adjustment
to it, which essentially means 2K over sticker.
Sticker on it is $22,128.

Of course buying a car for more than sticker
isn't something everyone will wish to do, it is
mainly a way for someone to acquire one around
6 months early. I guess if you currently drive
a gas hog and you put a lot of miles on your car
the fuel savings over six months could justify
it.

Please contact me on my cell number first and
we can discuss the car, if you find further interest
I will tell you how to reach me at the dealership
to continue the process. As a commissioned saleman
I want to be sure that my efforts in finding a buyer
are not spent in placing that buyer in the hands of
one of my co-workers, I'm sure you understand.

If you feel my posting here might be inappropriate
I hope you'll understand that it's not only an attempt
to sell a car but an chance to help someone get that
Prius they have been wanting a lot sooner as well.

Fred
512-771-0297
Gee, Fred, thank you so much for your generosity. If only I hadn't purchased a brand new Prius from another dealer at MSRP I'd jump at the chance to buy your used vehicle with only a $2000 markup. Dang! Oh well, I wish you all the luck you deserve in this kind and thoughtful endeavor.

Moo :)
 

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2 k over sticker for a used car??? I don't think so.

No wonder car salesman finished last in a recent 'honesty and integrity' poll.

Keep up the good work.
 

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Fred, you wrote:

"Of course buying a car for more than sticker
isn't something everyone will wish to do, it is
mainly a way for someone to acquire one around
6 months early. I guess if you currently drive
a gas hog and you put a lot of miles on your car
the fuel savings over six months could justify
it. "

I don't think so. Say your driving "a hog" at 15 mpg, and say you do well with the Prius and average 45mpg. You'd get that $2000 back after about 30,000 miles. Not to mention the Prius already costs more than a comparable vehicle.

Pat
Salsa '04
 

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Fred,

If you and your 'boss' are so confident about demand for this car, why not put it on e-Bay and let the market determine your price?

Good luck getting your 2k premium.
 

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hoss,

Please don't pollute this list with such a pitiful post. This is not a place for vultures (using the figurative meaning of that word; the real ones are useful).
 

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Good gosh guys, there are a lot slimmier sales people out there...at least he was forthright about what he was selling and how much he was selling for...there are people out there with more money than sense or patience and that is this guy's target audience...he'll probably find someone willing to pay what is being asked despite the absolute rip off. And what does he care that the reputation of car dealers is further degraded....it's so low now that one more hit makes a miniscual difference. :?
 
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Hi Hoss:

___Since you are making available the used 04 Prius for such a deal, what kind of deal are you offering on a USED 2004 Toyota Sequoia HOG nowadays? You remember, that thing made by Toyota that has achieved just 2 of the 5 worst emission ratings of any new Car, Truck, or SUV of any manufacturer on the road today all the while achieving an astonishing 15 mpg EPA City/Hwy combined? How about the Toyota Land Cruiser which lyes second from the worst right above the Range Rover - Land Rover? Got a good deal on any of those Toyotas like the deal you are offering the used 04 Prius for?

___If you could make a buck by selling your grandmother, I have no doubt you would!

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:c7o4f7bg][email protected][/email:c7o4f7bg]
 

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Discussion Starter #10
why oh why can't I just ignore those replies?

Hahahahahhah,

your impassioned responses are quite delightful but if you think
there aren't people who are willing to pay over sticker to get
what they want you are decidedly naive. Those of you who
already have one have no right to speak for others who
are finding the delay intolerable. You clicked on the link to
my post knowing full well you weren't in the market so put a
sock in the indignant protestations.

No one made you read a post that was plainly an offer to sell
a car, much the same as no one makes you open the aol
disk when you it arrives in the mail. (Yes I see the irony in
the comparison).

You clicked the link so you don't have grounds to complain
(of course that never stops you from putting in your feeble
two cents now does it). You couldn't stand to just read it
and move on could you, no, had to fancy yourself a defender
of the people, a voice for those too timid to challenge the
dastardly car salesman.

Regarding the veiled and not so veiled barbs at my charachter
because of my chosen profession, I think that simple minded
stereotyping shows as great a lack of charachter as you accuse
the car sales profession of having.
If I were the sort to stereotype the members of this group
I would probably say something like...
"Put down the mouse and the Cheetos, go take that monthly
shower then get out and see what the real world looks like."
But I don't need to stoop there. I know that there are
dozens, perhaps hundreds of people who either read my
post and moved on or simply never clicked on it. People
who are only passing through. People who don't make the
discussion of a pile of metal their whole "raison d'exister".

And now to address those who took the time to show
they cared.

To moocatdog, mmmmm delicious sarcasm, I love it! Your
reply was the only one with any merit or relevance and
that didn't belie a personality crying out for attention.

To pat, OK the bit about saving a lot of money on fuel was
irresponsible hyperbole but no one with any common
sense would take a broad statement like that as gospel.
Nonetheless, I retract and profusely apologize for that
comment.

To veggievet, I think your posts were, despite the besmirching
tone, not bad. I didn't put it on eBay because it wouldn't be
equitable to the other sales people trying to sell it.

To Frenchie, see paragraph two of this post mon ami.

To Evan (efusco), I'm not certain what the term "slimmier"
means but wow, you sure give me a lot of credit for having
an effect on the whole auto industry. Thanks!
Wait, did you mean "slimier"? You cad!

To Wayne (xcel), no, I already sold Granny, she didn't fetch
much but I can tell by your tone you would have loved to have
gotten in a bid! Seriously, I don't think you can saddle me with
the blame for America's love affair with the OPEC friendly SUV
craze but I'm glad you could go even further off topic and use
my post as a little soap box for your rant!

Anyway, thanks for giving me a reason to flex my creative
writing muscles, I would love to banter further if any of you
feel particularly vociferous!

Evil Car Salesman #454005

BTW, to all of you who are proud of working every angle you
can to get your car for next to no profit and not allowing your
sales person to make anyting more than a minimum commission,
you can proudly hold part of the blame for many of the evils
that befall the poor unsuspecting buyers out there. The money
has to be made somewhere.
Sorry you don't understand that a business cannot survive without
making a profit.

Even better, the impending move towards "pure pricing"
that is coming to the industry is DIRECTLY the result of your
premise that YOU shouldn't have to provide a fair profit for a
quality product. Since you take pride in spending so much time
to beat the salesman down to nothing (which places the burden
of providing profit upon the people who are less equipped to
pay it by the way), since you revel in playing dealer against
dealer for every little penny you can save, the industry is now
in a gradual move to unilateral price solidarity. In the not too
distant future you will pay the same price at every dealer.

All your valiant attempts at haggling will be to no avail.
Just like Saturn, just like our new Scion line. Although it will
make salespeople go the way of the eight track I will revel
in the knowledge that no matter what you do, no matter how
many web sites you peruse, no matter how many times you
indignantly get up and walk out, you won't get jack.
Deelish.
Holdback? Don't even TRY to use that as a reason to pay
invoice. You aren't dim enough to think a dealer can rely on
THAT to stay open are you? Again, you beat us down to
nothing and someone else is going to have to provide the
money to keep the dealership in business. Are you proud
of yourself? Do you think everyone you do business with
should bend to your desire to receive special consideration?

Do you tell your server at Red Lobster that you don't intend
to pay the price they have posted? When you buy your Member's
Only jackets do you tell Wal Mart that you will only shell out the
cash if you can see their invoice? No you don't.
I'd be willing to bet that there is not ONE single person in this
newgroup who has ever asked McDonalds to discount their
price.
Whew, I should stop, I'm getting worked up and to top it off,
I've just given some of you a new soap box to stand on.
Even worse, I've gotten off on my own rant.

Nite Nite
 

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To Evan (efusco), I'm not certain what the term "slimmier"
means but wow, you sure give me a lot of credit for having
an effect on the whole auto industry. Thanks!
Wait, did you mean "slimier"? You cad!
Sorry, the various conjugations of the word slimy are not something I spend a lot of time worrying about (apparently you're much more familiar with the term--wonder why?)...if you didn't get the point you're a lot more dense than I thought. And, BTW, I did NOT give you any credit for any significant impact on the industry--if you bother to read my post I was (note the past tense) defending your right to sell at a higher price than MSRP and the fact that people will buy at that--but perhaps in your self-rightous defensiveness you failed to pay attention to that....you lost your sole defender (not that I was exactly siding with you to start with) with that last rant.

Where do I start...I don't wanna spend a lot of time on this but you brought up a few points that should be addressed.

Many of us loyal Prius people read every new post. New posts about available cars are of particular interest NOT b/c we're cruising for some dealer to **** on, but b/c there are so many people out there who've been waiting for months and months and who anticipate even longer waits. I look so that if the car is legit and in an area of someone else on one of the boards is on a waiting list I can make them aware of the opportunity. Your first theory quashed.

Second, because of the limited availability of this car the consumer is more vulnerable to cheating money grubbing dealers who'd rather turn a buck than try to deliver cars at a fair honest price (i.e. MSRP) to the first person on their list who's been waiting. This makes a bad mark on Prius, a bad mark on Toyota, a bad mark on Toyota sales people, and a bad mark on car dealers in general...not that they need another. I guess we all live in a la la land to think that someone selling a car like the Prius would have enough integrity to sell at a fair price to really help the industry and to promote the car and to keep customer satisfaction high and make this thing available ASAP to everyone without leaving a bad taste in their mouth.

Finally, not one single comment here said a thing about striping the dealer of profit--that was your own little creation. All any of us expect is MSRP, some of us will haggle for a bit better or maybe the floor mats thrown in. But small concessions like that on your part (aka the dealer) will cost you a few bucks now, but has the potential for high satisfaction for the customer and future sales to that customer, his/her friends/family/spouse etc. That requires a long term outlook, planning and patience. Short term you get that extra couple grand, spend it on $20 ties and a new suit at the Men's Warehouse and a lap dance at the local club and laugh with your buddies what a sucker the guy was that paid it and how you screwed him on the trade in and financing all in the same sale. You can take your pissing and moaning about the customer trying to get cars for no profit somwhere else, you've got an educated intelligent audience here, we appreciate your right to make a profit and a livelihood, but not the right to gouge the consumer just because the situation is ripe.

You made the comparison to Red Lobster...no one complains about paying the menu price, but we'd be pissed as hell if we were promised a price to get us in the door, fed our appetizers, had the plate put on the table and then told that we couldn't eat unless we agreed to pay 10% over the menu price--that my good hoss is what you're doing and that is clearly unethical.

I have no doubt your stand will remain the same, if you can live with yourself then that's great. There are good fair honest dealers out there, I have one and I'll be back to see him many times. You are the kind of loathsome slime that helps keep me on the defensive when I'm anywhere in the neighborhood of a car dealership.

Please do us all a favor and don't post here any more until you're ready to list available cars at a fair price. If anyone enquires I'll be sure to not recommend you....there is a nice database of dealers on the yahoo forum, might just be that your name appears there soon.
 

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Gums are flapping everywhere........

Great thread! Keep up the good work--both sides! Now my $.02.....
I am a deposit-putter-downer, a greendriver-in-waiting with much Prius envy. I'll take any Prius except black or white including any package, less is better. And I will not pay $.01 over MSRP (ok.......maybe $.01 but not $.01 more!) So hoss, if you are up to it, tell that evil boss of yours that you've got a buyer and he needs to get off that "what the market will bear" attitude with the same fervor that you cried about when addressing "the customer beats us down to nothing" and "you don't expect Walmart to show you their invoice". I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You've got both sides of your mouth running at full speed.....think about it. So if you want me to walk into your showroom and accept your sticker price as is, then DON'T MARK UP THE STICKER PRICE WITH YOUR $2000 PREMIUM!
Now, do we have a deal or what?
 

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Hoss, you lost your McDonald's bet-if you had thought about my screen name you may have figured out I don't eat meat.

Speaking of meat, you are displaying the classic symptoms of 'mad car salesman disease'. I'd like you to consult the good doctor on our site, Dr. Fusco. I'm sure he can help you.

By the way, I do not own a Prius...yet. I'm perfectly willing to wait for my color/option to arrive at my dealer, who is charging MSRP.

Please let us know what professions you are considering pursuing once your job becomes obsolete.

Hope you feel better soon.
 

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I feel lucky

Please don't paint dealerships with too broad a brush. We bought our 2004 Prius from the local dealer with 4700 miles, put on it by the dealership owner who was using it as his personal demo. Our old car was rear-ended and totaled long before the delivery date on the car we had ordered, so he agreed to sell us his. They discounted it $1000, gave us some accessories and paint treatment, AND they knew we were willing to pay the full price to avoid renting a car for two months.

I don't blame this fellow for getting what the market will bear, but I do feel fortunate to have the employee-owned Maine Mall Motors near by. By the way, the Honda Civic hybrid is also very nice, if the wait is getting too long. It was just a little too cramped for my height.
 

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Gee guys, do you think we showed our best side to this "gentleman?" What about, "Never wizen up a chump, never give a sucker an even break?" Free enterprise capitalism?

Recently flu vaccine was in short supply and many youngsters were getting life threatening cases of flu. How would Mr. Free Enterprise like it if the clinic sold him a flu shot for his son for the regular price but wanted $2000 extra because it was in high demand and short supply. When cars are in oversupply, dealers lower their prices to encourage buyers to help out the dealer with inventory not because they are trying to give the public a break. It seems that some dealers want every situation to be a windfall for them.

I don't have a Prius yet and still exhibit strong Prius envy. My selected dealer, according to the general manager, feels that they have the "right" to charge anything they want including all the market will bear B U T in the 14 years he has been there he has never seen a car marked up beyond MSRP.

Yesterday (Sat) I returned the loaner Prius they gave us on Tue. They said they would try to pull it out of rental/demo duty and sell it to us if we wanted it. At that moment it had about 400miles on it of which over 350 were put on by us. It was our new first choice color and my wife just LOVED it B U T it was a package #8 and we want the works, #9, so we continue to wait.

This dealership (Hudiberg in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) is so far above and beyond the wondrous pixie you folks have been lampooning that there just isn't a comparison. They exhibit more true customer consideration and moral fiber by accident than that (fill in your favorite diminutive term) bozo could muster with the help of a nun.

There is more to being a car salesman bound for long term success than being smart, intelligent, quick witted, verbal, and motivated. You need to be able to lose the us and them attitude.

Why do we suppose folks take such a dim view of car salesmen? EVERYONE doesn't just start out thinking they are bad people until proven otherwise. Not all car salesmen are slime. Not all cops are badge heavy clowns with ego problems. Apparently and unfortunately the profession tends to attract that element and can foster and support individuals like that for a time especially because there are always more fish coming up the river looking for a car who know less than the sharpie.

Here's a word of advice, if you don't want people making comments about your low morals, don't flash them in their faces. Sure it is a free county but don't expect to garner accolades for stoking your fires with beans and then going to church to see who you can gross out with your profound farting. It may not be illegal but it won't be considered nice. Maybe you really don't care to be thought of as a nice man. Perhaps you have wallowed with the money pigs for so long the stench is so strongly embedded in your pores that you don't smell yourself anymore. We do.

There is little to be said for the honesty you portrayed in declaring yourself up front as a dealer rep when it was as much to cloak your low intent in phony respectability as for any other reason. Thanks for dropping by and reminding us why the clich�of "car salesman" remains so firmly embedded in negativity. Alternatively I should consider that in a way you may actualy provide a benefit to some car sellers. The stark contrast might make them look good.

I sincerely wish you luck in finding and maintaing remunerative employ when car pricing becomes sticker only, no ups, no downs. I for one would hate to think my taxes would be wasted feeding you.

Pat (There isn't an emoticon for what I wanted to express so here goes two feeble attempts to improvise. The first is a "digital" message and the second a graphic representation, sort of. Please excuse my gesture.)

00100 ,,!,,
 

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I posted here last month. I live in Lakeland, Florida . In early November, I visited Lakeland Toyota and they were charging a "market adjustment" fee of $ 2000. I was (reluctantly) willing to pay it. I got a call at the office one morning and was told that if I came over immediately, they had a car for me - I wnt home and picked up my trade-in (2003 Civic Hybrid) and went to the dealership. They must have called other customers and pulled the same stunt - when I got there, they had another customer and they were waiting to see whom they could get the most out of - I walked out.
I then made a call to Miracle Toyota in Winter Haven (about 20 miles away) and the salesman said they do not charge any Market adjustment and practically made the deal over the phone and was told that I can expect the car in January/February. I got a call two weeks later saying that they had a special allocation car from Toyota and asked if I wanted it. I picked up the car on December 13th - a month after my first call!!
MSRP, free floor mats, great service, no hassles and I got a higher trade-in on my car.
You can bet that I will return to this dealership and that salesman for cars for my kids, relatives and I will send friends there!!!! They will make far more than the $2000 that the other dealership was going to gouge me for.
 

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Ha Ha! miss a few days and all heck breaks loose!

Hey "Hoss", (that's a good one, by the way), we all appreciate the massive display of altruism you and your sales manager are displaying by offering this used car for only $5000 profit. Especially since a fair amount has probably already been made on it through rental charges.

I can't tell you how touched we all are, and .... sorry, just give me a minute.....just a little choked-up here....

I have already made my feelings well known to Toyota regarding the gouging and questionable, if not unethical, practices of dealers regarding the Prius. I could care less if someone is willing to bend over and ....pay whatever price. It makes you and Toyota look bad and that's not what you want, right? ..... RIGHT?
 

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Hey Hoss! I'm wise to you. I see what you done. You don't have a car to sell. I see by the replies you've just stirred things up. You have everybody ranting and raving and hollering and you've taken this beautiful, calm Prius forum and degraded it into that other stupid Yahoo Prius group. I'll bet you litter and scare children too. Shame on you :p
 
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