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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anybody have a copy of the how they are going to take care of the 60,000 units......I mean is that 60,000 units for the United States only of world wide.................
 

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Probably US. The other question is the definition of manufacturer. Does Scion/Lexus count in the Toyota total?

But the credit doesn't start reducing at 60K cars, it reduces after the quarter after the mfr reaches 60K hybrids. There are 4 dates in the year to look out for when the credit reduces, and I am sure when the first manufacturer reaches it, it will be well advertized in the news.
 

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Good luck

God help you if you actually read it...
:wink:

The house bill itself p1391 and p1417 of interest.
 

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tax credit...

Okay, so, now I'm to understand that AFTER 60,000 Toyota hybrids are sold in the US (Prius and Highlander), then the tax credit of approx. 3 grand STILL works until the next quarter, whereas it starts to go down by 25%?

Is this really how it works? Anyone know more details? Why, oh, why, does it have to be so hard to do the right thing?

Oh, I guess, when 2 oilmen are in the white house, ya can't reward conservation so easily, bad for the immediate bottom line, yet worse for our air.
 

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You got it.

Here's the theory. On the last day of every quarter, Toyota reports sales. In that report there is an agrregate called "Hybrids". If that number ever exceeds 60,000, then the IRS will void full credits on vehicles purchased 3 months after the publication of said report (or later). At that date (lets call it the phase-out, or void date) the credit is reduced. I think it rolls from 50%, 25% to 0 over the next 3 quarters.

Outstanding question is do Lexi (lexuses) count? I'd say yes.

Here's their latest report.. and yes, they list Lexi.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_libra ... d=20051003
 

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Toyota Hybrid Tax Credit

Dan, that URL is dead already: wish I could read it. Did you happen to save a copy?

From what you stated it seems that if Toyota sold 60,000 hybrids in quarter 1, then no matter how many it sold in quarter two, all would be eligible for the full credit approved for each model in quarter 3, however many units that may be. Can that be true?

A dealer was telling me Toyota expects to send 160,000 hybrids to the US, this year. If a quarter were sold in the 1st quarter, all vehicles sold through the 1st 3 quarters would be full-credit eligible, because the 60,000 quota is not exceeded until quarter 2. That means that if hybrids are imported at a constant rate, 120,000 or more (if production ramps up) Toyotas would qualify.

Either someone is going to pick my logic apart, or the IRS is going to be reinterpreting the law!

A dealer I spoke with stated that the first 60,000 sold in '06 would get the full credit calculated for the vehicle, another 60,000 would get 3/4 the credit in '07, 1/2 in '08 etc.

I have no idea if that makes any sense. I didn't read all that bill either.

But I WOULD like to know if I'll quaify for the credit, just getting in line today! Some smaller dealers in NM I'm talking to seem to think I'll get a car by March. If the 1st scenario is correct, I'm OK.

C
 

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The dealer is wrong, as my dealer was dead wrong for what he said the tax incentive was.

But you are close to being correct.
If Toyota sells 60K hybrids within quarter 1, then full credit can be applied up THROUGH quarter 2, then becoming reduced in quarter 3. If Toyota makes the quota in quarter 2, shift the schedule by 1 quarter (full credit through quarter 3, reduced in quarter 4).

So the dates to be concerned with are 3/31, 6/30, 9/30, 12/30 starting with 6/30/2006, where the next day is the earliest day that the credit could possibly be reduced.
 

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Well, Dan, it doesn't surprise me the dealer is wrong: we have seen all kinds of misinformation from such sources.

Thanks for restating the Tax Credit eligibility scheme. Your interpretation makes perfect sense, and should be reassuring to those who are late placing an order.

Did you dig this interpretation out of the Energy Bill, or get it from a third party?

I think I'll try to get an acceptable package by Mar. 31, just to be on the safe side! !Getting on lists right now, NM dealers I have spoken to seem confident I'll get delivery by then, but it depends how quickly Toyota gets up to full steam, I guess

Is Toyots going to announce publicly announce which packages will be available in which regions, or do we have to believe what the dealers tell us? I saw an order sheet for SoCal (I think) which indicates they ordered Pkgs 3, 6, 7, 8 I have only very detailed specs for those 4, from the sheet). Seems like they were already told what they could request.

C
 

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cgraham said:
Did you dig this interpretation out of the Energy Bill, or get it from a third party?
Both I think. I read the relevant parts, then some comments had me re-read it with the comments in mind, which had me see the quarterly stipulation that I had originally glossed over.
 

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Thanks for your hard work checking tthis out, Dan: I recall we joked about not reading the lenghy document in a previous thread.

C
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just one change Dan.

After having the Tax Adviser( My own....) go over everything it now looks like this.

Quarters are the Key.

Central Atlantic Toyota.........Mentions that it PROABLY won't be until March 2006 when we hit 60,000 units!! This is supported by Numbers Sold (according to last year and projections for this year.)

Thus it would work like this:

100% to every Hybrid ( Prius, HH, RX 300 H, Plus soon to include the Camry Hybrid) sold in the first quarter (March 2006) AND then Extended for the Next Quarter (Jun 2006)

50% to each hybrid sold from 1 July 2006 for the next 2 Quarters (December 2006)

25% for every hybrid sold from 1 January 2007 also for the next 2 Quarters.

Then finially 1 July 2007, you will get 0% until the year 2010 unless they re-vamp the Energy Bill before that time.

Is that confusing or what.......and it could still possibly change since The Government hasn't turned out the Finial Version yet...........

If anyone else has Ideas let me know............

Tom Quinn :wink:
Internet Sales
 

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That bill was signed into law. Now how the IRS implements that law is another matter, but any change the IRS makes should only be administrative and not monetary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
DanMan32 said:
That bill was signed into law. Now how the IRS implements that law is another matter, but any change the IRS makes should only be administrative and not monetary.
I was under the same impression that because they signed it .....it was Law....... Now according to Deep Washington Connection (LOL). I heard that the terminalogy has to be.........."Hashed out"!!!

The example I was Given was that no where in the bill does it stipulate anything about oversea sales...........If you take the literal meaning........then Toyota has to include sales of the Harrier and Hawker in Europe and the Mini Van in Japan. What do they have to do with the USA I don't know........but, stuff like that.

Then it up to Toyota as to how they will distribute those 60,000 units.......
 

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How Toyota is going to distribute 60 K Units ?


30k To me and 30k To you, My Friend ! Even split East/West how 's that !
 

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First there was The Law.

Next there are the Implementation Regulations, written by the Dept. of Energy (or possibly the IRS, as it is a tax matter). Finalization of the regulations probably does not need to be concluded until early 2007 (which is not to say it may happen sooner).

Then there is the IRS, whose policy is to maximise your taxes and minimise your deductions and credits.

Then there are the Courts who Determine if the Law has been Interpreted correctly (if a party brings a lawsuit, and if a court agrees to hear the case).

Last and Least are the Taxpayers; they are left in the dark and frequently get hit by the IRS with large penalties for underpayment of taxes for reasons they can not possibly be able to anticipate or understand.

Taxpayers are not people, they are revenue sources.


Enjoy your Prius in '06!

Worry about a possible credit (and penalty if you ought not have claimed it) in '07. (Never worry today about what you can postpone worrying over until Buyer's Remorse is exhausted).

That's how it works......

********************************

Murphy was an optomist (O'Toole's Corollary to Murphy's Law).
Personally, I just want to be prepared for the worst, so I'm a pessimist.

*****************************

For much needed light relief, or more pessimism, depending on how you look at it: http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-laws.html

C
 
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