LoJack make sense for 2004 Prius??
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Well, I looked into it, mainly just to bring my insurance down... Figured at the least it would pay for itself over time.hudel said:
Direct quote from progressive... With a great driving record and a good driver discount, over the course of an ENTIRE YEAR (2 terms) I would save "about $11" if I installed lojack or an equivilent theft deterrent system.
Combine that with smart entry/start and I say no... not worth it... UNLESS you live in a neighborhood SO riddled with crime and auto thefts that you choose to get it strictly out of paranoia.
You don't have to live in a neighborhood riddled with crime to be concerned about it. People who want to steal don't necessarily stay in crime-ridden neighborhoods. They often leave those neighborhoods for their criminal activities. In fact, they often go to nicer neighborhoods to do their crimes, because people in nicer neighborhoods have nicer stuff and are often are ill-prepared to defend themselves.bradca21 said:
It's a bit unfair to refer to ANY precautionary measures as "paranoid," particularly when it comes to crime and security in this day and age, and espeically now in a post-9/11 world where terrorism concerns are so high.
In fact, the United States' Congress' number 1 priority is the safety and security of the homeland. I would think that it's only reasonable to rank our own personal security similarly high.
I also want to do my own part in preventing crime, and in catching criminals. This is not paranoia. It's just my sense of right and justice. Or call it a fierce patriotism. However you refer to it, it's a fact that fully 96% of all crimes today are committed by the SAME SIX PERCENT of the population.
If I help the cops catch a thief, it's quite possible he won't spend much time in prison. Or maybe he will. After all, he might be part of the 6 percent of the population that are repeat offenders, and may already be wanted for another, more serious crime.
I also believe that a LOJACK greatly increases my odds of catching a carjacker. I've said in other threads here that if I am carjacked, I would give up my car. But with LOJACK, there's a chance we could catch the criminals...who, once again, may already be wanted for other, more serious crimes.
And if you live in a state like Florida, where we have the 10-20-life law for gun crimes, then it really DOES pay to make an effort to catch a carjacker.
That, and the fact that I couldn't live with myself if he went on to kill somebody else (after he took my car), and I hadn't done SOMETHING to try to catch him. Yes, I do believe it's my responsibility, PARTICULARLY when there's very little risk on my part (pay to have the unit installed, and report the car stolen if it ever is).
Granted, it's costly for LOJACK. And the "LOJACK Early Warning" feature is even more expensive. But in my opinion, preparation is everything.
Tell me about it. My neighborhood is relatively crime free, but my theft-proof 1981 Olds Cutlass was pintched right from my front door. I wish whoever stole it all the luck in the world, since it does require atypical skill to drive in the winter without stalling...BIF said:
The Prius is relatively difficult to steal, short of putting it on a flat bed. You can’t hotwire it you need the computer to run it, the computer has to id your fob. The rolling coding changes the id each time it is used and the range is short. We you get it about all you can do to use it is put in a new computer. I suppose some one could part it out but that would be a very knowledgeable group to handle the high voltage stuff and not damage things. I think the Prii crowd is fairly safe for now.
You know, I was actually half relating to my neighborhood. I live in the crap part of Long Beach (7th and Orange for those that may know it) and not only is it all apartments through here so we have no option of parking in a garage or secure lot, but we actually just park wherever we may HAPPEN to find a spot along the street.
A LOT could happen to it on the street. In fact a while back it got keyed and dented by some a$$hole... Where I'll be moving to north of Seattle, I can at least put it in my GARAGE and have a little more sense of ease at night. Not wondering who is walking by it since it IS a bad neighborhood... I'm actually moving to a GREAT area.
Sure, not saying someone couldn't break in to the condo, open the garage door and take it... but that's a LOT more effort than something up the street (especially that isn't necessarily in earshot of my residence should the alarm go off)
Not saying anything bad about Lojack, it just doesn't seem like it ever gets to a point where it pays for itself... and I think in the long run, wouldn't having THEFT on your insurance policy be just the same and less money (especially out of pocket and all at once?) (And I'm aware that theft on insurance policies won't help track it SHOULD it be stolen... But if they steal it and scrap it for parts... I'd rather HAVE the value than a salvaged title and half a car...)
Thanks for your input folks...
I have decided that Brad makes a lot of sense: "...But if they steal it and scrap it for parts... I'd rather HAVE the value than a salvaged title and half a car..."
However Bradca21 seems to think we should invest our money in nice stuff to use as bait to catch criminals"
"... I couldn't live with myself if he went on to kill somebody else (after he took my car), and I hadn't done SOMETHING to try to catch him. Yes, I do believe it's my responsibility, PARTICULARLY when there's very little risk on my part (pay to have the unit installed, and report the car stolen if it ever is). "
I would prefer investing in a Glock 45 if nailing criminals was my intent...its much more cost effective...
:wink:
I have decided that Brad makes a lot of sense: "...But if they steal it and scrap it for parts... I'd rather HAVE the value than a salvaged title and half a car..."
However Bradca21 seems to think we should invest our money in nice stuff to use as bait to catch criminals"
"... I couldn't live with myself if he went on to kill somebody else (after he took my car), and I hadn't done SOMETHING to try to catch him. Yes, I do believe it's my responsibility, PARTICULARLY when there's very little risk on my part (pay to have the unit installed, and report the car stolen if it ever is). "
I would prefer investing in a Glock 45 if nailing criminals was my intent...its much more cost effective...
:wink:
Aaaah, you have misquoted. It wasn't Bradca21 who said that. It was me. And you MOST DEFINITELY took me out of context, because I never said we should buy stuff as bait for criminals.hudel said:
I know you were just making a joke, so I apologize for getting all serious here, but you asked a serious question, then treated my response as a laughing matter.
Taking me out of context and using that as a basis for a joke really devalued my entire prior post. Hence, the reason I'm back. (sorry)
So just to be clear:
1) I do NOT advocate buying nice stuff as bait for catching criminals. That's just silly and dangerous.
2) I do NOT even advocate flaunting nice stuff so that criminals will see it. In fact, I think that discretion is smart. It's one reason I always use the privacy shade in my Prius' trunk, and it's one reason I tinted the windows.
3) But the fact is, I cannot disguise my car. People will see it in the driveway, up and down the street, in the garage, in a parking lot at the movie theatre, or at work. It's a nice looking car, it's new, and I keep it clean and waxed.
4) Therefore, Item #3 above MIGHT still make me or my car a target, in spite of my best and most diligent efforts to be circumspect while carrying on with my life.
5) I did not buy my Prius to attract, trap, and capture criminals. I bought my Prius because I wanted a larger car than what I was driving, and because I wanted to burn less gas.
6) Jokes aside, It's not practical, safe, or smart to "pack heat" just for a trip to the corner store or the movie theatre. I bought my LOJACK as a precaution against the criminals who might try to take my Prius from me, and maybe shoot at me or my passengers.
Remember, the LOJACK is hidden in the vehicle, not in view taunting the theives. It will INCREASE the odds of catching a criminal without increasing my risk.
I know you were just joking, but your joke really de-valued my prior statements, and made me appear a bit one-dimensional in the process. So I felt I had to set the record straight, because other people might read this thread with the same type of question. I think this is an important matter, and should be discussed as such.
Too many people treat security and safety far too lightly and jokingly. Oh, boy are they surprised when they get held up or robbed! And that's when they start getting all self-righteous and indignant, when it's too late to do anything about it!
As I said before, PREPARATION is everything.
And I would also recommend that you take just a moment to read some of the stories of captures on lojack's website. They DO catch a lot of criminals who are wanted for OTHER crimes. The URL is http://www.lojack.com .
Okay, getting off my soap box now. Next!
Prius friends,
Don't live in fear. According to the FBI, the national crime rate has declined 16% during the past ten years.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/02cius.htm
Their statistics show motor vehicle theft as comprising 10% of total crimes and that it has also declined nationally during the same time period–by more than 20%.
Does this mean your car won't be stolen? Of course not. If you want and can afford LoJack, if only as an added tool for law enforcement, go ahead and get it. The odds are strongly against you ever needing it, but, it's your money.
As for your pesonal safety, the same FBI report indicates violent crime (murder, nonnegligent manslughter, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault) down 26% in the past ten years.
Does this mean some nut will never threaten you with a gun? Of course not, but the odds are quite long as well.
Don't buy the hype. The fearmongers will say anything to sell more advertsing.
Drive happy,
Moo
P.S. BIF: I recognized the misquote. I do want to point out that in item #6 of your response you wrote:
Don't live in fear. According to the FBI, the national crime rate has declined 16% during the past ten years.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/02cius.htm
Their statistics show motor vehicle theft as comprising 10% of total crimes and that it has also declined nationally during the same time period–by more than 20%.
Does this mean your car won't be stolen? Of course not. If you want and can afford LoJack, if only as an added tool for law enforcement, go ahead and get it. The odds are strongly against you ever needing it, but, it's your money.
As for your pesonal safety, the same FBI report indicates violent crime (murder, nonnegligent manslughter, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault) down 26% in the past ten years.
Does this mean some nut will never threaten you with a gun? Of course not, but the odds are quite long as well.
Don't buy the hype. The fearmongers will say anything to sell more advertsing.
Drive happy,
Moo
P.S. BIF: I recognized the misquote. I do want to point out that in item #6 of your response you wrote:
Unless you have a LoJack sticker prominently displayed, or foolishily try to engage a gun-toting criminal in conversation, I don't follow the logic. LoJack is for tracking stolen cars, not providing personal safety. I'd hate for someone to read this, misconstrue the sytem's purpose, and rush out and buy LoJack thinking it was some kind of personal bullet-defense-shield.
I believe BIF's point was not that LoJack would protect him from the actual carjacking, but that by making capture of the thief more likely, in the long run it would help protect society from future criminal acts by that thief. He has a point. However, since the Prius is so difficult to steal (without a flatbed, or at the very least a tow truck) there's a vanishingly small chance of LoJack ever being needed.
All true, Daniel. Thank you. I have taken the liberty of highlighting a passage in your quote above that I feel especially strong about.
And as you have observed, there IS a vanishingly small chance of my LoJack ever being needed. Like non-mandatory insurance, I sincerely hope I will never actually need it! But like some optional insurance policies, I still chose to purchase it. It's a judgement call.
Daniel said:
And as you have observed, there IS a vanishingly small chance of my LoJack ever being needed. Like non-mandatory insurance, I sincerely hope I will never actually need it! But like some optional insurance policies, I still chose to purchase it. It's a judgement call.
Daniel,
I've been meaning to welcome you back. It seemed you had disappeared and I am so glad to see you posting again. You rock.
You wrote:
Drive happy,
Moo
I've been meaning to welcome you back. It seemed you had disappeared and I am so glad to see you posting again. You rock.
You wrote:
I understood BIF's main point about helping protect society and I applaud the good intentions. However, while clarifying his position, he clearly stated:
Intentionally worded or not, this is specific to the individual, not society in general and I think it is important to maintain that LoJack is intended to help the police find stolen vehicles and, if possible, apprehend car thieves, not to protect people from guns.
Drive happy,
Moo
I have Lojack on my current cars, and plan to add it to my Prius if and when it arrives. I was quoted $500 for adding the Lojack to the new car, so it is a little less. If the car was stolen -- very unlikely with everything the Prius has to combat theft, I would like to recover it. Or, do my part to catch the dirtbag(s) who stole it.
If it is totaled in the commission of the theft, and gets a salvage title, I won't get it back, I would get the money; so I am not really sure what Hurdel is talking about. If it isn't totaled, then I get the car back. If it is missing or has damaged parts, then the insurance covers it, so I don't get "half a car"
I also get the bennie of slightly lower insurance.
I also like the idea of increased chance of capture, that has value to me.
But again, very unlikely that the car will be stolen. With all the technology in the 'key' and the starting system, it will be harder. And the alarm. Also, since most cars are stolen for parts rather than the car, and a limited number of Priuses (sp?) on the road needing collision repair -- most of the Prius owners carry insurance and are not looking for cheap parts, the lack of parts compatability with other cars, and you will have a very very low theft rate for a very long time. But since I plan to keep it for a while, I will get the Lojack -- just in case.
Also, if the rare thing happens, and your car is stolen, what about the contents at the time? Yeah you can put in a claim, but sometimes you want what is in there, not the $$ for it. Your laptop? favorite leather jacket? vacation luggage? iPod? if through Lojack your car is recovered early, you get your crap back. And if it isn't, depending on what plan you get, Lojack reimburses you for the insurance deductable you have to pay.
And just because you live in a good area, doesn't make you immune. If you were going to steal a car, where would you go? Where the crappy cars are? And besides, do you ever drive to a 'bad' area, or park in not so nice area when you go out on the weekends? Or ever go to a mall (lots of car thefts at malls).
So it is $500, if I never need it (and I likely will not), I will be glad I have it. If the car doesn't come back, they pay my deductable, so I actually break even on the deal as my deductable is $500. If I don't need it, I wasted $500, over the 8 or so years I typically keep a car; that is a whooping $62.5 a year (minus insurance savings). I think I can cover that.
Spike
If it is totaled in the commission of the theft, and gets a salvage title, I won't get it back, I would get the money; so I am not really sure what Hurdel is talking about. If it isn't totaled, then I get the car back. If it is missing or has damaged parts, then the insurance covers it, so I don't get "half a car"
I also get the bennie of slightly lower insurance.
I also like the idea of increased chance of capture, that has value to me.
But again, very unlikely that the car will be stolen. With all the technology in the 'key' and the starting system, it will be harder. And the alarm. Also, since most cars are stolen for parts rather than the car, and a limited number of Priuses (sp?) on the road needing collision repair -- most of the Prius owners carry insurance and are not looking for cheap parts, the lack of parts compatability with other cars, and you will have a very very low theft rate for a very long time. But since I plan to keep it for a while, I will get the Lojack -- just in case.
Also, if the rare thing happens, and your car is stolen, what about the contents at the time? Yeah you can put in a claim, but sometimes you want what is in there, not the $$ for it. Your laptop? favorite leather jacket? vacation luggage? iPod? if through Lojack your car is recovered early, you get your crap back. And if it isn't, depending on what plan you get, Lojack reimburses you for the insurance deductable you have to pay.
And just because you live in a good area, doesn't make you immune. If you were going to steal a car, where would you go? Where the crappy cars are? And besides, do you ever drive to a 'bad' area, or park in not so nice area when you go out on the weekends? Or ever go to a mall (lots of car thefts at malls).
So it is $500, if I never need it (and I likely will not), I will be glad I have it. If the car doesn't come back, they pay my deductable, so I actually break even on the deal as my deductable is $500. If I don't need it, I wasted $500, over the 8 or so years I typically keep a car; that is a whooping $62.5 a year (minus insurance savings). I think I can cover that.
Spike
Intentionally worded or not, this is specific to the individual, not society in general and I think it is important to maintain that LoJack is intended to help the police find stolen vehicles and, if possible, apprehend car thieves, not to protect people from guns.moocatdog said:
Drive happy,
Moo
[/quote:215btgix]Well, thank you for the good words, Moo. I don't get many compliments on my opinions.
I can see how you misinterpreted BIF's motivation for the LoJack. But he was clearly refering to the general case: the thief who steals his car and gets away because he (hypothetically) does not have LoJack will be able to continue his life of crime and may shoot at him on another occasion.
Of course, he's making an assumption that car thieves are more likely to resort to violence than the rest of the population, and I'm not sure that assumption is justified. (But then, I think that the people we put in prison are no more dangerous, on average, than the people we don't.) I think the real point is that BIF is so angry at car thieves, or perhaps criminals in general, that he's willing to spend the $500 just in the hopes of maybe helping to catch one.
Car theft is so bad in Richmond Virginia (kids stealing cars from nice neighbourhoods, driving them til they run out of gas or wreck, then abandoning them) that I pay thru the nose for insurance. The courts are so over-run with vehicle theft cases that car thefts by minors ranks down there with jaywalking. As A teacher, I know personally kids who have stolen 2-3 cars and DID NO TIME AT ALL. A police officer told me that lojack is great if the local police will grant the time and manpower to actually track it down in time to catch the criminal and actually get them off the streets if they do. He said it was a waste of money, at least in Richmond.
Hi again, folks.
My Lojack was far more costly than $500 or even $800. I purchased mine directly from Lojack, and they sent an installer out to my residence to do the work. Just so you'd know, it may not be cheap, but I feel very strongly about it. And as I said in all of my prior posts, I would want a chance to catch a criminal for all of those reasons:
Yes, to prevent him from repeating his crime on others. Protecting society is all of our jobs as responsible citizens. Some of us can do a lot. Those people become cops. Some of us can only manage to do less. We should be attentive, alert, and willing to do what we can; whatever is within our means.
Yes, to lock him up to keep him from finding or visiting my address from inside my car (on a newspaper or magazine subscription, on a receipt, etcetera).
Yes, to prevent him from hurting or killing somebody in the future, maybe somebody I know and love.
Yes, to get back my laptop or camera or favorite leather jacket. (I like that last one in particular, because I have four "favorite" leather jackets; my favorite is always the one I'm wearing!)
These things are all true.
I thought of something today, I know I had heard it before, but I cannot remember the exact wording, nor can I remember who said it.
It has to do with society and the orderliness that it requires in order to excel and prosper. And it went something like this: A society with little or no law and order will eventually fail.
Keeping this in mind, this thing about kids stealing cars and not doing time; well that GREATLY worries me. They learn that it's not a big deal to us in our society. Nobody cares; go ahead, steal! And so it begins.
Here in Florida, at least we put 'em to work picking up litter on the streets in the morning. They have to wear orange jumpsuits that say "Juvenile Offender" on the back. No, we don't beat them or whip them, nor do we put them in stocks and shackles.
But I think a little bit of labor has merit. And I hope that some of them will take stock in their lives, and consider making fundamental changes.
Can anybody confirm or refute something else I had heard? Was it true that stealing a man's horse was once a crime punishable by death? Just curious...I'm not proposing that we put that back on the books. Well, not yet, anyway. :wink:
My Lojack was far more costly than $500 or even $800. I purchased mine directly from Lojack, and they sent an installer out to my residence to do the work. Just so you'd know, it may not be cheap, but I feel very strongly about it. And as I said in all of my prior posts, I would want a chance to catch a criminal for all of those reasons:
Yes, to prevent him from repeating his crime on others. Protecting society is all of our jobs as responsible citizens. Some of us can do a lot. Those people become cops. Some of us can only manage to do less. We should be attentive, alert, and willing to do what we can; whatever is within our means.
Yes, to lock him up to keep him from finding or visiting my address from inside my car (on a newspaper or magazine subscription, on a receipt, etcetera).
Yes, to prevent him from hurting or killing somebody in the future, maybe somebody I know and love.
Yes, to get back my laptop or camera or favorite leather jacket. (I like that last one in particular, because I have four "favorite" leather jackets; my favorite is always the one I'm wearing!)
These things are all true.
I thought of something today, I know I had heard it before, but I cannot remember the exact wording, nor can I remember who said it.
It has to do with society and the orderliness that it requires in order to excel and prosper. And it went something like this: A society with little or no law and order will eventually fail.
Keeping this in mind, this thing about kids stealing cars and not doing time; well that GREATLY worries me. They learn that it's not a big deal to us in our society. Nobody cares; go ahead, steal! And so it begins.
Here in Florida, at least we put 'em to work picking up litter on the streets in the morning. They have to wear orange jumpsuits that say "Juvenile Offender" on the back. No, we don't beat them or whip them, nor do we put them in stocks and shackles.
But I think a little bit of labor has merit. And I hope that some of them will take stock in their lives, and consider making fundamental changes.
Can anybody confirm or refute something else I had heard? Was it true that stealing a man's horse was once a crime punishable by death? Just curious...I'm not proposing that we put that back on the books. Well, not yet, anyway. :wink:
Joined
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109 Posts
Depends on which part of Richmond you're in.....
Saruman, if you live downtown, or in the Fan, yeah, you've got lots of theft potential.... on-street parking, etc., etc... but I'm only 5 miles from downtown, and I don't worry too much about it.
Have I seen you driving around yet? I'm seeing more of us in the Richmond area, that's for sure...
Bonnie
Snake Puncess
Saruman, if you live downtown, or in the Fan, yeah, you've got lots of theft potential.... on-street parking, etc., etc... but I'm only 5 miles from downtown, and I don't worry too much about it.
Have I seen you driving around yet? I'm seeing more of us in the Richmond area, that's for sure...
Bonnie
Snake Puncess
6) Jokes aside, It's not practical, safe, or smart to "pack heat" just for a trip to the corner store or the movie theatre.
Au contraire mon ami... I live in one of the several concealed carry states that do not interfere with private citizens right to bear arms. It is rare indeed that I leave home without it and I am not THAT MUCH in the minority. IT being a "baby Glock" in .45ACP. I am not paranoid. I expect the odds of my ever needing it are rather low. I truly hope I NEVER find myself in a position where I would have to use it.
The actual calculated odds according to the US weather bureau (severe storms folks at Norman, Oklahoma) is that a residence located at ground zero of tornado alley would sustain substantial tornado damage once in 4000 years. Why then are there so many folks with safe rooms? Storm shelters? Because this could be THE YEAR and you wouldn't like the outcome if you weren't prepared.
I am religious regarding seat belts also and have all the air bags offered on the Prius as well as the computer assisted stability in addition to ABS. I try to drive defensive and I sure as heck avoid situations where security would be a problem but if trouble finds me and mine, I want to be prepared.
So, the Prius is hard to steal... I wonder how many Prius owners save money by not having theft incsurance due to a comfortable feeling regarding it being so hard to steal or not being a prime target.
I am in favor of installing an alarm like a friend has had for years. It is a silent alarm that pages him and disables the vehicle. He expects to arrive on scene before the thief can override the alarm and take the car.
Pat
Au contraire mon ami... I live in one of the several concealed carry states that do not interfere with private citizens right to bear arms. It is rare indeed that I leave home without it and I am not THAT MUCH in the minority. IT being a "baby Glock" in .45ACP. I am not paranoid. I expect the odds of my ever needing it are rather low. I truly hope I NEVER find myself in a position where I would have to use it.
The actual calculated odds according to the US weather bureau (severe storms folks at Norman, Oklahoma) is that a residence located at ground zero of tornado alley would sustain substantial tornado damage once in 4000 years. Why then are there so many folks with safe rooms? Storm shelters? Because this could be THE YEAR and you wouldn't like the outcome if you weren't prepared.
I am religious regarding seat belts also and have all the air bags offered on the Prius as well as the computer assisted stability in addition to ABS. I try to drive defensive and I sure as heck avoid situations where security would be a problem but if trouble finds me and mine, I want to be prepared.
So, the Prius is hard to steal... I wonder how many Prius owners save money by not having theft incsurance due to a comfortable feeling regarding it being so hard to steal or not being a prime target.
I am in favor of installing an alarm like a friend has had for years. It is a silent alarm that pages him and disables the vehicle. He expects to arrive on scene before the thief can override the alarm and take the car.
Pat I don't live in such a state as you, Patrick.
And even if it were legal, carrying arms to the grocery and the cinema are not reasonable options for me, particularly in a state where it's common to wear shorts and a t-shirt when not going to my job. Very difficult to conceal anything.
So to me, the prompt capture and justifiable punishment of criminals is of a high priority. It's the next best thing, I guess you could say.
And even if it were legal, carrying arms to the grocery and the cinema are not reasonable options for me, particularly in a state where it's common to wear shorts and a t-shirt when not going to my job. Very difficult to conceal anything.
So to me, the prompt capture and justifiable punishment of criminals is of a high priority. It's the next best thing, I guess you could say.
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