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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

The Prius came in at a very respectable #2 behind the itsy bitsy Honda Insight, by a single MPG and ahead of the #3 Honda Civic Hybrid by a wider margin of 11MPG. The first three finishers were rated for city driving at 60, 59, and 48 MPG (Insight, Prius, and Civic Hybrid respectively.)

VW with the New Beatle, Golf, and Jetta (with diesel engines) came in at 38MPG.

I found it interesting that after the next car, the Honda Civic (regular version) at 36MPG, the next 5 cars, filling out the top ten, were all Toyota models. Six of the top ten new cars were Toyotas.

I wonder how statistically significant the 1 MPG difference was between thte Insight and the Prius? Nearly a dead heat in city mileage and the Prius is so much more car. WOW!

:D Pat :D
 

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statistically significant...........

if you look at practicality that 1 mile is "very insignificant"

a 2 seater vs a 4 door hatchback


no family can rely on an insight (aint enough laps to sit on).


tha 1 mpg is probably more than compensated for in emissions

sid
 

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patrickg said:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

The Prius came in at a very respectable #2 behind the itsy bitsy Honda Insight, by a single MPG and ahead of the #3 Honda Civic Hybrid by a wider margin of 11MPG. The first three finishers were rated for city driving at 60, 59, and 48 MPG (Insight, Prius, and Civic Hybrid respectively.)

VW with the New Beatle, Golf, and Jetta (with diesel engines) came in at 38MPG.

I found it interesting that after the next car, the Honda Civic (regular version) at 36MPG, the next 5 cars, filling out the top ten, were all Toyota models. Six of the top ten new cars were Toyotas.

I wonder how statistically significant the 1 MPG difference was between thte Insight and the Prius? Nearly a dead heat in city mileage and the Prius is so much more car. WOW!

:D Pat :D
Patrick,
Thanks for the link. That is quite an interesting list. I second your WOW! and add a HOORAY! I considered the Civic hybrid, but decided to wait and see what I thought of the '04 Prius. For countless reasons I am s-o-o-o glad that I did.
Drive happy,
Moo :)
 

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patrickg said:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

The Prius came in at a very respectable #2 behind the itsy bitsy Honda Insight, by a single MPG and ahead of the #3 Honda Civic Hybrid by a wider margin of 11MPG. The first three finishers were rated for city driving at 60, 59, and 48 MPG (Insight, Prius, and Civic Hybrid respectively.)
What gets 59mpg in the EPA city test?

The 2004 Insight's ratings are 60/66 (manual) or 57/56 (auto). The 2004 Prius' ratings are 60/51. The 2004 Civic Hybrid's ratings are 46/51(manual) or 48/47 (auto).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
tjl, Don't shoot the messenger! I can see where there might be some confusion. I intended to include two URLs and only put in the one. The other was a CNN piece on the top ten cars in fuel economy. The results reported on the CNN (Money Magazine I think) site were restricted to one version of each car and city driving only. Their reported milleage is what I referrenced.

Just now I went looking for the link and only found a slide show of the top ten MPG cars. Same cars but only pix no numeric data.

Anyone else out there use Netscape and look at the "NEWS" offered? Any idea of how to access yesterdays version of the top ten MPG cars?

It probably wouldn't clear up the mystery of why the mileage figures aren't the same as on the Gov site I posted the link to but if I had to guess I'd say it either was a different test or had different weighting factors. It is also possible the CNN/Money Magazine folks just got it wrong I have no way of proving that one way or the other.

Just what is the important part here? The ratings weren't THAT different.

They got the ranking in the right order. They got the approximate differences between vehicles about the same. Unless you know the weighting factors and test methodology you can't even recreate their work to see how you measure up to their estimate. Your average in city mileage is probably obtained under conditions different from the Gov tests and can't be fairly compared directly.

The direct answer to your question, if I understand it correctly is... Prius.

I just reported the data listed. I don't claim it is the same as whatever you are quoting. By the way, you just stated some mileage figures but neglected to mention the source. EPA window stickers? I failed to mention the other "mystery" source too, but that was an oversight I'd correct if I could find the bloody web page where the data were listed.

Again, if one of you bright computer literate types would be so kind as to assist, maybe we could clear up the mystery.

:D Pat :D
 

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Discussion Starter #7
tjl, That is what I thought. Makes me wonder exactly what the source was for the report I extracted the info from. No matter, not enough difference to be particularly significant but I wish I could find it again.

More startlling than an insignificant difference in test results for the same car is the consistent differences reported between different cars. In that, the tests agree and show Prius to be more advanced as it is so close to the Insight in mileage (by either test result) while being so much larger, heavier, and powerful.

:D pat :D
 

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fueleconomy.gov

Do note that the city/highway
values will depend upon which
tests/country is providing the data.

Here are the data following the US
EPA tests, as reported on fueleconomy.gov:

Best/Worst MPG by size class:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml

Hybrid Vehicles Compared side-by-side (CVT versions):
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs.shtml

2004 Toyota Prius: 60 city, 51 highway, 55 combined MPG
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19794.shtml

2004 Honda Civic Hybrid, CVT: 47 highway, 48 city, 47 combined MPG
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19580.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19581.shtml (48, 47, 48, not sure of the difference...)

2004 Honda Civic Hybrid, manual: 45 city, 51 highway, 47 combined MPG
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19582.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19583.shtml (46, 51, 48, not sure of the difference...)

2004 Honda Insight, CVT: 57 city, 56 highway, 56 combined MPG
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19356.shtml

2004 Honda Insight, manual: 60 city, 66 highway, 63 combined MPG
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19357.shtml
(odd how the values have changed...
2004 60/66, 2001-2003 61/68, 2000 61/70)


Meanwhile, here's Canada's Office
of Energy Efficiency's list of 2004's
most fuel efficient vehicles:
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles/efficie ... w=N&Text=N


Yes, the CNN/Money list of the Best
Gas Mileage cars does incorrectly
list the MPG on the 2004 Prius:
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/gasmileage/
(however, since the EPA allows one to
download their mileage data, it
could be a case of rounding/truncating
the data to get the 59 - 60 MPG confusion.)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I previously allowed as how the CNN/Mnney data could be in error but that is a fact not in evidence at this time. All we know for sure is that there seems to be a disagreement between the two sources. While it is quite likely that CNN/Moneycould be in error, it is unproven. I'm guessing here but the CNN info claims to be reporting a new Gov release of data as of Thursday. We could genreously give them credit for meaning the most recent Thursday.

I could not tell from my quick visual search of the Gov site, just what the timeliness of their data is. It is possible the web site is not as up to date as the report CNN used.

I don't claim this to be the case. I only point out that I have seen no facts in evidence to disprove it. Ultimately we have two soures in disagreement and additional information would be required to make a more precise determination of which is the more reliable or up to date.

A potential clue is the reference on the CNN site that shows then crediting fuel economy .gov

:D Pat :D
 

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Not to mention that it's a measly 3 cylinder :wink:

ses said:
statistically significant...........

if you look at practicality that 1 mile is "very insignificant"

a 2 seater vs a 4 door hatchback


no family can rely on an insight (aint enough laps to sit on).


tha 1 mpg is probably more than compensated for in emissions

sid
 
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