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Discussion Starter #1
Interesting he does not mention that the Prius does not share the A/C problem he concentrates on.


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August 24, 2005
latimes.com

Just admire your mileage
It's a kick seeing what Honda's Civic Hybrid can do with a gallon of gas, but that's where the excitement ends.
By Steven Cole Smith, Orlando Sentinel

I have yet to join the True Believers who insist that hybrid vehicles are, flaws and all, the answer to our problems of oil dependency, global warming, pollution and the heartbreak of psoriasis.

I like hybrids and admire what the manufacturers have done, both mechanically and with regard to their public spiritedness, because at this point none of them is making money from hybrids, regardless of what they tell their shareholders. No one has yet amortized the cost of developing such an innovative product.

As I spent a week in a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, I tried very hard to enjoy the experience, and ultimately I did.

Here's how: You know that with, say, a sports car, you get a certain amount of pleasure from the acceleration, the swoopy styling and the cornering?

In the Civic Hybrid — base price, $20,950 — you get a certain amount of pleasure from looking at your running fuel-mileage total and seeing that you are getting 38.3 miles per gallon, which was my average over about 380 miles. This is considerably less than the Environmental Protection Agency ratings of 47 mpg in the city, 48 mpg on the highway, but still, 38.3 mpg is pretty good. Right? Right.

I don't think there was any way to get 48 mpg in the Civic, but I know I could have done better if I turned off the air conditioner, which, I understand, some True Believers are willing to do. In August, it might be a bit warmish, but anything to save a gallon.

Actually, I have been in contact with some hybrid owners who did not realize that when you pull up to a stop sign, and the engine stops, the air conditioning does too. The fan keeps blowing, and for maybe 30 seconds, the air is cool, but after that, it gets warmer. With the Civic, the "economy" setting on the air conditioning lets the engine shut down at a stop, but on the regular setting, it won't. The majority of my driving was done with the air on economy, and if it hadn't been, I would have averaged less than 38.3 mpg. But I would have been cooler.

Otherwise, the Civic was just not much fun to drive. Its electric-boosted power steering was notchy and annoying, and there was a remarkable amount of road noise from the tires.

The Civic, like all Honda hybrids, is a "partial" hybrid, meaning it won't move using its electric motor alone; the electric motor just helps Honda's little 93-horsepower engine accelerate, and therefore the engine uses less gasoline. With its 11.88-gallon fuel tank, you could expect a range of about 450 miles between fill-ups.

And with the CVT, or continuously variable transmission, which works like an automatic but doesn't have a set number of gears, acceleration wasn't bad.

Typical of Civics, it was built like a little tank. There is no scheduled tune-up until it reaches 110,000 miles, and I have little doubt that it would be trouble-free for a very long time.

Satisfying? Yes.

Fun? Sorry, not so much.
 

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Well, it goes to show you this guy wrote an article on the wrong car. Had he chosen the Prius, it would have been written differently! :)
 

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that article was talking about the 2005 Civic Hybrid, which is strange considering it's basically the HCH Classic, which came out before the Prius. It had low horsepower, and was very much just a slightly upgraded version of the Insight.

I've been hearing good things about the 2006 Civic Hybrid, which would be to the original HCH as the '04 Prius was to the '01 Prius Classic. In fact, I think somewhere Honda was touting that the regular '06 Civic would have better mileage than the Prius! We'll see if that holds true.
 

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I hope Honda has made improvements. I understand that they are finally getting the motor to turn off when not moving. To me, that is HUGE. But MPG isn't the only thing this guy was talking about. I've been talking to a guy who rented a Prius to drive to Sothern California and he was extremely impressed with the ride. He is now calling around trying to get his hands on one.

As for the Honda getting better gas millage ... it will be dificult as long as they continue to use the electric to assist the gas motor.
 

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LA Times Article

One of the troubling things about articles like these is that the general public (read non-Prius owners) believes what they read. The author, Smith, is a regular contributor to car magazines, and an established "car guy." If he wrote this in a car mag, the following issue would either have letters to the editor, or a "correction" published.
 

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WayneBruce said:
that article was talking about the 2005 Civic Hybrid, which is strange considering it's basically the HCH Classic, which came out before the Prius. It had low horsepower, and was very much just a slightly upgraded version of the Insight.

I've been hearing good things about the 2006 Civic Hybrid, which would be to the original HCH as the '04 Prius was to the '01 Prius Classic. In fact, I think somewhere Honda was touting that the regular '06 Civic would have better mileage than the Prius! We'll see if that holds true.
Huh? How can the "Classic" HCH pre-date the Prius? (I realize that the HCH is getting some redesigns for 2006, hence the difference in models...)

Toyota Prius went on sale in the US in July 2000.

Honda Civic Hybrid went on sale in the US in March, 2002. http://world.honda.com/news/2002/c020320.html

MPG between the HCH (soon to be the "Classic") and the "Classic" 2001-2003 Prius were about equal, as was size, ammenities, and price.

I can easily see the lighter/smaller new HCH beating the MPG ratings of the current Prius...
 

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mrv said:
Huh? How can the "Classic" HCH pre-date the Prius?
Sorry. I wasn't specific enough. I meant the HCH "Classic" predating the Prius 2. The Prius Classic predates the HCH. And in fact, when the HCH Classic came out, it was IMO better than the Prius Classic.
 

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No obligation...

No obligation...!!!!!!

Hey...!!! Priusilians...!!!
You are getting to far. You have the strongest believe that everybody is only allowed to talk about the "Marvelous Prius". Please, let that guy states his feelings about what you figure is your competition and is not. HONDA...!

Like I said before: "Others manufacturers are working to improve the hybrids too".

The obsesive chauvinism over your Prius's Fame is a "terminal state of Priusilytis".

You need rehabilitation to acomodate you back in to the real world.
 

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A new LA Timesarticle about the Civic.

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Here are some highlights for the four 2006 Civic models:

Price: $14,500 to $21,500; no information yet on individual models.

Powertrain and fuel economy:

Sedan and coupe: 1.8-liter, 140-horsepower engine with five-speed manual transmission (standard) or five-speed automatic (optional). Fuel economy (Honda estimate), 30 miles per gallon in city driving, 40 mpg highway.

Si: 2.0-liter, 197-horsepower, six-speed manual. Fuel economy, 22 mpg city/31 mpg highway.

Hybrid: 110 total horsepower from gasoline engine and electric motor. Constantly variable automatic transmission, with new all-electric drive mode at low speeds. Fuel economy, 50 mpg city/50 mpg highway.

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now we have something to talk about.
 

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WayneBruce said:
Hybrid: 110 total horsepower from gasoline engine and electric motor. Constantly variable automatic transmission, with new all-electric drive mode at low speeds. Fuel economy, 50 mpg city/50 mpg highway.
Hrm... if you can fold down the rear seats finally, this may be worth trading the Prius in for.
 

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WayneBruce said:
Hybrid: 110 total horsepower from gasoline engine and electric motor. Constantly variable automatic transmission, with new all-electric drive mode.
Copycats... :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I suppose the subtle irony escapes him, but I am amused by Rmarchena's post. He chides us to not print this non-Prius article, and does so with the justification that we shouldn't censor the guy's opinion, something he advocates we do to ourselves in his post!

Oh, and then he says WE need rehab. Too much!
 

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KTPhil said:
I suppose the subtle irony escapes him, but I am amused by Rmarchena's post. He chides us to not print this non-Prius article, and does so with the justification that we shouldn't censor the guy's opinion, something he advocates we do to ourselves in his post!
Actually, there is a bit of a point there.

You specifically point out how they don't mention that the Prius has electric only AC.. let me ask you, why should they? It's a review of the Civic! Not every hybrid article *has* to mention the Prius!
 

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LA Times

Jonnycat26 said:
KTPhil said:
I suppose the subtle irony escapes him, but I am amused by Rmarchena's post. He chides us to not print this non-Prius article, and does so with the justification that we shouldn't censor the guy's opinion, something he advocates we do to ourselves in his post!
Actually, there is a bit of a point there.

You specifically point out how they don't mention that the Prius has electric only AC.. let me ask you, why should they? It's a review of the Civic! Not every hybrid article *has* to mention the Prius!
However, Smith refers to "hybrid owners" when he says they don't realize that the A/C shuts down along with the engine at stops. That sounds like a reference to other hybrids, including the Prius. He obviously hasn't been paying attention.
 

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Re: LA Times

Roger V said:
However, Smith refers to "hybrid owners" when he says they don't realize that the A/C shuts down along with the engine at stops. That sounds like a reference to other hybrids, including the Prius. He obviously hasn't been paying attention.
He may have well been refering to other hybrids, including the Insight and Ford Escape Hybrid. Or maybe the Toyota Crown hybrid if I want to get cutesy, but I don't think that's necessary. :)
 

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:roll: CONGRATULATIONS to all you forum posters....

...for totally ignoring the resident TROLL here. Must frustrate him since he thrives on controversy and attention... like a ill-behaved child figuring negative attention is better than no attention at all.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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ChasSuitt said:
:roll: CONGRATULATIONS to all you forum posters....

...for totally ignoring the resident TROLL here. Must frustrate him since he thrives on controversy and attention... like a ill-behaved child figuring negative attention is better than no attention at all.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This passed afternoon I spent my time getting to know all the posting history that represents the sources of this unilateral and isolated conspiration orchestra, where only one musician and director plays.

The quality and range of the contributions of those postings just circunscribe juicy grapes, sugared apples and white cheese of Prius's Paradise. Sorry!, but the wine is missing. Romantic and sentimental apreciations over technical aspects over here and over there, and some isolated consultation on the manuals treated as religious book.

The psicological background inspired in the obsolete methodology of "ignore to diminise attention" does not work anymore in modern times.
The mitology applied to psicology does not work anymore either.

For your information, in modern times, it is prooven the debate prevails over the obscurance of the truth, and here I go, and I will be going for a while with you or without you.

The Prius is a marvelous car in our current times, but that is not enough to be a King, even less enough to glory it to point that denies the existence of other hybrids as entities.

Like I explained before, Priusilytis is the conductual result of an obsession for the Prius. The study of those results could constitute a thesis to be studied. With your expertise and some fundamental concept updates, you could handle and achieve wonderful results.

I hope you do not read this post, but unfortunaly you will...
 

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1997 - Toyota throws down the gauntlet.
1999 - Honda leapfrogs Toyota
2000 - Toyota leapfrogs Honda
2002 - Honda leapfrogs Toyota
2003 - Toyota leapfrogs Honda
2004 - Ford tests the waters
2005 - Honda leapfrogs Toyota (probably)
2006 - Toyota leapfrogs Honda (hopefully), other manufacturers leap in (hopefully)

And life keeps getting better for hybrid afficianados. 8)

Competition, it's a wonderful thing.
 

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Jonnycat26 said:
WayneBruce said:
Hybrid: 110 total horsepower from gasoline engine and electric motor. Constantly variable automatic transmission, with new all-electric drive mode at low speeds. Fuel economy, 50 mpg city/50 mpg highway.
Hrm... if you can fold down the rear seats finally, this may be worth trading the Prius in for.
NOT!
 
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