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http://www.postcarbon.org/node/691

Storm aims for heart of U.S. oil industry: Gas prices may jump sharply

Ben Raines, Mobile Register, 28 August 2005

Oil traders closed business on Friday confident that Hurricane Katrina would hit too far to the east to affect the price of oil and natural gas.

That was before the National Hurricane Center shifted the storm's possible path to a more westerly track that slices through the nation's main oil artery and could result in record prices for a barrel of crude within a matter of days.

If Hurricane Katrina holds true to predictions and tracks north through the toe of Louisiana's boot, much of the nation's oil and natural gas infrastructure will be exposed to 140 mile per hour winds, 30- to 50-foot waves, and water current speeds of around 20 knots all the way from the surface to the sea floor.

"This storm is going to pass through the meat of the oil and gas fields. The whole country will feel it, because it's going to cripple us and the country's whole economy," said Capt. Buddy Cantrelle with Kevin Gros Offshore, which supplies rigs via a fleet of large crew vessels.
 

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Doesn't matter, even if it didn't, they'd still bump the price up for "damages"
 

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Sounds like just the emergency that would justify using some of our oil
reserve.
I agree, though, it doesn't take them much to raise the price of oil.
Perhaps we can slap an emergency tax on the food and forest products we export to oil producing countries.
Might get their attention.

I have to wait another week to get my Prius. I'm even thinking of buying a spare.
 

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dogtag said:
Sounds like just the emergency that would justify using some of our oil
reserve.
I agree, though, it doesn't take them much to raise the price of oil.
Perhaps we can slap an emergency tax on the food and forest products we export to oil producing countries.
Might get their attention.

I have to wait another week to get my Prius. I'm even thinking of buying a spare.
You guys in the states are very lucky to have such low prices. The USA is in the top oil producing countries, I think the 3rd largest, yet you still import a very large part of your oil. Yet, there are so many complaints about "high" fuel prices.

Lets put it in prospective. Here in Europe we pay 3 times what you pay. Today I tanked up ind it cost the equivalent of US$ 6.50/gallon.

The problems not the fuel prices in the USA, but the bad usage habits of the government and the citizens of the USA. Sorry if it upsets you guys, but thats how it is. Do people really need 5.0ltr V8 cars, or large SUV's to goto the shops?

As Hybrid owners, most of the people on this site have already addressed this question, and decided that they can live happily with a more reasonable size car. Now we need to get others doing the same, not just in the USA, but world wide.
 

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No kidding. I saw the news report about the evacuation of New Orleans. What did I see? Expedition, Suburban, Suburban, Explorer, Suburban, oooh, a Dodge Colt.

But doesn't Europe also have a higher standard of living?
 

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The one thing I noticed most when ferrying tourists back to the "old country" after any kind of vacation that they had taken in the states was their complete surprise at the distances traveled by the normal American in a years driving. And our use of the natural wonders of this country both in the inexpensive State and National Park systems and the huge amount of just "open land" You wonder at the use of SUV's to go "shopping" but in this country an awfull lot of folks own really big boats and if you've ever tried to launch one on a wet ramp you would understand the reason for the four wheel drive. We also want to ski in the damdest places and we don't have the train system to get us there. We use our cars and we have the ability to purchase exactly what we need. Spoiled, "yes" stupid, "no."
There is a reason for just about every vehicle found on our highways and it is catered too by every car manufacturer in the world. You are hearing a lot of squawking about prices now but regardless, there is little sign of any decrease in driving being done and this years Labor Day weekend is forcast to beat all others in our history. (Labor day weekend Sept 2 thru 5)
We are blessed to be able to live here and though we do have a knack for the complaint we'll continue to thank God that we are this fortunate and the rest of the world can continue to expect to receive our help to keep us all free of terrorism now that the cold war threat is over.
Noticing the evacuation of New Orleans for instance I wonder just how glad the folks were that were fortunate in driving high SUV vehicles when the streets started flooding. The darn things could save your life and high gas prices "be damned" A new market might just have been formed and with it a decrease in economy class cars sales along the Gulf coast.
 

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So what does burning excessive amounts of fuel and polluting the air have to do with a high standard of living?

Us americans are the energy pigs of the world and should be ashamed.
 

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Since the high European gas prices come from taxes (one web site says "On August 8, for example, the price of gas in the US, without taxes, would be $2.17, instead of $2.56; in Britain, it would be $1.97, instead of $6.06."), I'm not sure politicians see a need to lose their jobs yet. It's a sure bet that, short of a disaster requiring rationing, anyone who raises taxes that high would be out of office after the next election.

I like to go where stuff I want to do can be done, on my schedule and not some train's or bus's. Unless I can't get gas, I'll just spend less money on stuff like movies and restraunt food and go where I want...
 

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mikepaul said:
I like to go where stuff I want to do can be done, on my schedule and not some train's or bus's. Unless I can't get gas, I'll just spend less money on stuff like movies and restraunt food and go where I want...
Hoooo boy, you don't know what a nerve this strikes with me.

In Europe, the trains and buses HAVE good schedules, unlike here where most public transit bites it big time in terms of scheduling. God forbid you have a night job and no car, because practically nothing runs at night.

I live in the Bay area and I used to take the train to work and if I was a measly five minutes late getting out of work, I would have to wait up to 45 minutes for the next train to come. And all these "restricted commute hour" buses sucked...I could NEVER work overtime because the last bus came right when I had to leave, and if I didn't make it within 15 minutes, I had to find a ride elsewhere.

And trying to take public transit from Mountain View to Hayward...a mere 27 miles and a 45 minute drive in usual Bay Area commute traffic...took me OVER THREE HOURS to do it by public transportation! That meant for a normal 8 hour workday I had to get up at 5 am and didn't get home until 7:30pm.

And even now, my wife who works a retail mall and has a train station literally steps away from her store, has to also wait 45 minutes at the station for the train, at night, before she can get home, if she works the closing shift.

Ok, I'm done ranting...sorry to be so off-topic from the original post.
 

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Sounds like just the emergency that would justify using some of our oil reserve.
I would like to respectfully disagree. What we're dealing with now isn't a crisis. I would hope that we would save the oil reserve in case of a real emergency like a terrorist attack on the Alaska pipeline, fuel processing plants, etc. Then the use of the oil reserve would be warranted. But I don't think it is now.
 

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Tideland Prius said:
But doesn't Europe also have a higher standard of living?
Depends on where you go and what you compare I guess. A lot of people over here dream of a "better" way of life in the USA. I would say its just the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I moved from the UK to Germany, be cause of a perceived better way of life, but now I see our future in Greece, as it is in some ways better than Germany. Go figure!

As for public transport, I cant comment on the system in the states, but a poor public transport system encourages private transport. When I lived in the UK, I could get to work, but not back home. So I had to get transport. At 16 I had a moped (a sort of cross between a motor bike and a bicycle). As soon as I was 18, I took my driving tests and got my license (you cant get one under 18 ), bought my first car and started driving everywhere.

My wife doesn't drive, and when we were living south of London, she had to take the train into the city, at a cost of UKP300/month. Here in Munich, she pays that per year. People in the UK also complain about the public transport. Trains stop when the first flake of snow fails, or the leaves drop of the trees in autumn etc.

For me, the impression of the USA is as coloured (and perhaps prejudiced) as much as the averaged Americans view of Europe. Both continents have good points and bad points. The fuel politics in the USA is in my opinion despicable, but on my 2 trips to the States, one during 9/11, I found 90% of those we had contact with to be extremely nice people. a few % were unpleasant and the rest just weird :lol:
 

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janets98 said:
Sounds like just the emergency that would justify using some of our oil reserve.
I would like to respectfully disagree. What we're dealing with now isn't a crisis. I would hope that we would save the oil reserve in case of a real emergency like a terrorist attack on the Alaska pipeline, fuel processing plants, etc. Then the use of the oil reserve would be warranted. But I don't think it is now.
But from what I understand, we DO have damaged fuel processing plants. Only difference between your criteria and Janet's is that the 'terrorist' was a natural storm.
 

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Heck, releasing the reserve probably won't help a lot, as it's raw oil, and many REFINERIES are out of commission. (Heck, of all the places to keep it, the strategic reserve is in SE Texas and Louisiana!)

And very little of the U.S. oil actually comes from Alaska. Most of it comes from the Gulf, so this hit to the Gulf is worse than a single attack on the pipeline would cause. (Besides, the pipeline could be repaired fairly quickly; we've lost more than just a pipe.)
 

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In the three hours since the announcement of the release of the fuel reserves, the market jumped from being down 55 pts. to a plus 22.
The power of the press??
I guess we now just wait to see how much damage was actually done to the rigs which were designed to withstand hurricanes for insurance purposes if for nothing else.
I guess we can all cross our fingers as very few of us were ever expecting to be putting out fifty dollars to fill our Prius tanks.
 
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