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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anybody know how the japanese 10-15 cylce emission test works and how the Prius performs on it!

Walter
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello Michelle!

Thank you for your quick answer. Comparing the expected mileage in different continents is rather interesting:

(km/l, l/100 km mpg US)
Japan 35,5 - 2,8 - 83
USA 23 - 4,3 - 55
Europe 23 - 4,3 - 55

1.) USA and Europe have the same expectations although I believe that it is much easier to reach that goal in the US. In Europe the problem is speed! Once you are out of town, the speed limit rises to 65 mph, on interstates its around 85. And you better not dare to go below. Comparing user date on greenhybrid.com with European user date shows that many US-owners go below the EPA but hardly any Europeans. My average since August is 50. Now the EPA for Prius 1 was 19,6 -5,1 - 46 in Europe. To reach that was no problem at all.

2.) Japan - Is that 10-15 cycle (as described in your link) really representing japanese way of driving? I understand speed limits in Japan are low and rigorously checked, also this country is highly populated with limited room to live and drive. Does anybody have experience in japanese driving?

Walter
 

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just remember that different countries have different tests, and that US Gallons aren't really used outside of the US (Imperial Gallons most everywhere else)...

US 2005 EPA ratings are 60MPG city, 51MPG highway, 55MPG combined. For
comparison units, 3.9l/100km or 72MPG Imperial city, 4.6l/100km or 61MPG
Imperial highway, 4.2l/100km or 66MPG Imperial combined.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/20934.shtml

Canada 2005 OEE ratings are 71MPG city, 67MPG highway, but that's Imperial
gallons. The ratings are also listed as 4.0l/100km city and 4.2l/100km
highway.
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/p ... s-2005.pdf

UK 2005 VCA ratings are 56.5MPG urban (cold), 67.3MPG extra urban, and
65.7MPG combined, again Imperial gallons. Alternately that's 5.0l/100km
urban (cold), 4.2l/100km extra urban, and 4.3l/100km combined.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search ... p?id=10982

and for completeness: Japan 2005 using the 10-15 cycle is (if my Japanese translation is right)
35.5km/l or 33.0km/l depending on option grade. That's 2.8l/100km or 83US
MPG or 100 Imperial MPG, and 3.0l/100km or 77 US MPG or 93.2 Imperial MPG.
I do note a OnMouseOver note that's something about 30.0km/l though...
http://toyota.jp/prius/spec/spec/index.html

Not even the US EPA test cycles match what typical US drivers do... The tests were developed in the 1970s, with some mathematical downward multiplication factors added to the final results in the 1980s, and hasn't been touched since...

http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/reports ... ehood2.pdf
"FUEL ECONOMY FALSEHOODS: How government misrepresentation of fuel
economy hinders efforts to reduce global warming and US dependence on
foreign oil" by the Bluewater Network, 2002
 

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wgaustria said:
2.) Japan - Is that 10-15 cycle (as described in your link) really representing japanese way of driving? I understand speed limits in Japan are low and rigorously checked, also this country is highly populated with limited room to live and drive. Does anybody have experience in japanese driving?
Hello from Japan,

The 10-15 mode test is just a sample cycle and it does not related any actual situation.
The traffic conditions are very different between busy city area and country area.

The reason of better mileage than the EPA is the 10-15 mode test is done after warming-up.

comment added: The actual average mileage number is about 20-22km/L in Japan.

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello Ken!

Thank you for sharing information with me. I would like to ask you something. Are the results from the 10-15 mode test in any way influencing the amount of tax you pay for a vehicle?

In Austria it does. Until a few years ago we had a different mode test which resulted in a lower consumption. But since some of our car taxes (especially an aquisition tax) are based on consumption they changed it AND INCLUDED a "cold start" of the engine as well as higher speeds (up to 120 kmH). This of course put the number much higher resulting in higher taxes over here.

Now, I got interested in japanese car taxes before and found out about weight tax, engine size tax, local taxes and the big "hammer" the SHAKEN!!! after 3, 5, 7 ... years.

It is an interesting policy of keeping the car price low but making it more expensive to keep and run it. SHAKEN might be a reason why so many young japanese cars (3 to 5 years) are exported everywhere, like to Russia (Sakahlin, Vladivostok, Khabarovsk region). Even Priuses are sighte d there.

How are Prius owners dealing with this SHAKEN? It is quite a huge expense concerning nothing is actually repairered on the car? I must confess I find less Priuses on Russian used car sites (i.e. http://www.japancar.ru) than other comparable Toyota cars.

Greetings
Walter
 

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wgaustria said:
Hello Ken!

Thank you for sharing information with me. I would like to ask you something. Are the results from the 10-15 mode test in any way influencing the amount of tax you pay for a vehicle?
No, there is no relation between the test results and tax.

Our taxes are...
- a consumption tax (on purchase)
- an aquisition tax (on purchase)
- a weight tax (on purchase and on SHAKEN)
- a car tax (anually, engine capacity related)
How are Prius owners dealing with this SHAKEN? It is quite a huge expense concerning nothing is actually repairered on the car?
It's just our government is protecting the SHAKEN industry. :x
I must confess I find less Priuses on Russian used car sites (i.e. http://www.japancar.ru) than other comparable Toyota cars.
The maintenance process for Prius is some what different from normal cars. (ie; The battery status anual check using Scan tool.)
I think Russians are avoiding meeting the complex problems.

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Ken,

I'm an ignorant American, but what is SHAKEN and the associated industry, that and the interaction with the age of a vehicle?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jeromep said:
Ken,

I'm an ignorant American, but what is SHAKEN and the associated industry, that and the interaction with the age of a vehicle?
Hello!

From what I know (from Austria) shaken is a mandatory vehicle checkup which takes place after 3, 5, 7, 9 ... years on every vehicle in Japan. This is not bad as we in Austria have it too. But in Japan shaken (without any repairwork done) costs quite a lot of money - for the process of checking the car. I am sure Ken can give you more accurate numbers but it is definitely in the 1000, 2000 dollar range for a single inspection.

Because of "shaken" many japanese car owners try to get rid of their cars before they get 3, 5, 7, .. years old to avoid shaken.

Ken, please correct me if I am wrong but I think this is what I read from the internet.

On the other hand Japan always has quite new cars driving around!

Walter
 

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No, I think it's because they modify it to the extreme lol.

ok, seriously, I don't know.
 

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Hi all,

OK, the SHAKEN is a mandatory vehicle inspection process done every other year in Japan.

The cost for the Prius class will be...(roughly)
- a weight tax US$350
- a mandatory insurance US$250
- a maintenance service fee US$300
- replaced parts cost as needed, US$0 to US$2,000???

The inspection will be done to check how the vehicle runs safely next two years, such as steering system, braking system, wheel bearings, tire wear, suspensions, fuel lines, emission controls and chassis.

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Hey Ken, That takes all the fun out of it. Here, we just wait until it breaks or is "recalled."
Actually since we know how reliable they are made you can "strike" that $2,000 figure.
Thanks. ............. (I wonder how they came up with the word "shaken?")

I know, someones going to come up with "they put it into a machine and shake it a few hours to see if anything breaks."
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
For people outside of Japan "SHAKEN" might sound like a very "cruel" governmetnal impact on car owners. "If it ain´t broke don´t fix it" I was told when I was a student in West Virginia.

Even for japanese car owners "SHAKEN" might not be fully understandable since japanese cars are very reliable - even with minimum service they keep un running years and years when 300.000 used cars (usually before the next SHAKEN is about to happen) are annualy shipped to Russia.

Of course a thorough inspection every other year is a very useful tool to assure safe roads - but safe vehicles are just a small part of safe roads.

I think another reason is to keep Japan´s economy going. The Prius has a rather small engine for japanese driving, usually a japanese owners drives his 2 Liter engine (a quote from a japanese website). So SHAKEN on an average japanése car is even more expensive.

Since cars are rather cheap in Japan (because the cost comes owning it!) people rather tend to buy a new car after 3 or 5 years than pay several SHAKEN inspections on a single car since a new car comes with 3 years of valid SHAKEN anyway. And a car of 5 or 7 years is almost worth nothing in Japan considering you need another SHAKEN for it and maybe repairs.

In the US new cars are more expensive than in Japan but the cost of owning it is rather low. In Euopre (we are the poorest) new cars are highly taxed - therefore expensive and the cost of owning it is enormous too.

Walter
 
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