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Hyperion remarked:

"I think it would have been wonderfull if Toyota had taken the gamble and put hybrid power in every car and truck and SUV they made from the 2004 models on. They didn't take that gamble and now everyone is playing "catch-up."

Toyota in fact plans to have a hybrid version of all their vehicles within ten years, and as of now are in production on one SUV and one Lexus in addition to the Prius. GM is likely to adopt Toyota's technology under license and *may* get something on the market eventually. So where does the term "catch-up" apply?

I agree with you, by the way, on the market's performance over the last week. Thank God I don't have any GM stock.
 
"I'm looking forward to finding the synergy power plant in a bona fied automobile"

I love the Prius with our without the hybrid drive, just a lot more with it. But you don't think it is a bonafide automobile? On what basis?
 
We've all known Toyota's plans for further hybrids for a year now Jon. What they failed to plan was on being able to increase production of the Prius to meet demand, but then again they also had no idea gas prices were about to skyrocket and make the Prius so desirable.

Ford went the licenseing way to get into the act sooner and settled for less of a design than they liked, but they too were not sure enough to gamble on more than a limited production run for the Escape and so have gone along with both GM, and Chrysler Mercedes, to develop a more satisfactory hybrid for all their combined 2007 models.

GM also failed on recognizing how desirable their new Chevy Pick-up convertible would be and now have a six month wait on that model for delivery even with the 30 thousand plus price tag. And about that market, it was about every mutual fund on the exchange that took the hit this week and that means every company in the US. I'm sure GM was right there with all the rest.

And Jon, it's not too good to live downwind to anything. The chinese have a saying, "crowded elevator smell different to midget!"
 
I think it is fine, actually smart to test the waters first. After all, the Classic was out 3 years, without a landslide demand. The 2004 was promoted using celebrities and promoting the technology. I wish I could remember just how I came to think of the new Prius, but it wasn't by celebrity, I couldn't care less aboout that.

But I don't think it was that other manufacturers COULDN'T do hybrid, it was that they WOULDN'T.

Even if gas prices were not the issue, the handwriting was on the wall that new personal locomotion technology was needed, and should be designed to be compatable with existing resources. Hydrogen and EV do not fit that bill, hybrid does. Even E85 compatable automobiles are 'backward compatable' with E0/E10 gasoline, so resources have a chance to migrate.

Look at telephone, radio and TV. We have had advances on all 3, but remained backwards compatable to the specs when they were invented many decades ago.
 
You weren't reading the same stuff I was and what I read gave a clue that hybrids were going to be the shortest interim to the new technology, I researched Toyota for a year. Test drove a classic. (They were an abundant item at the dealerships and felt performance and sizewise it was only half a car.
The 2004 however was more than acceptable and I ordered mine sight unseen when the wait was several weeks and I have not been disappointed in what I consider the first acceptable hybrid that has come along.
The US and most of the other manufacturers in the world however have taken a different approach to controlling emissions (forced by the largest purchaser of cars in the country, (california) They in an effort of increasing economy and still retain a viable product for the American market, (still the largest in the world) have gone to a more economical version and control of the internal combustion engine. "The guy up the street is still exceptionally suspicious of anything relating to batteries which probably have given him the most trouble in his automobile history. I still find people who think I am kidding them with talk of Ten year and 100,000 mile warranties on batteries.
Most recent generations of the internal combustion engines are those that can now operate with a portion of their cylinders shut down ect: and the milage quoted has increased substantially while still retaining the same family sized cars, pick-ups and vans. Now they have decided to go hybrid with their new technology "not licensed from Toyota" and the race is on. Don't disregard over one hundred years of automotive no how.
It makes darn good sence to support all their endeavors (for the well being of the country) with all the good wishes and financial backing when their cars hit the streets in 2007.
You may not have looked lately but the new Chevy Malibu ST is not only larger than the fully equipped Camry, but it gets better milage, offers more, (like powered seats) and is twelve hundred dollars less expensive.
Methinks you may have been concentrating more on the Japanese for the past dozen years.
 
hyperion said:
We've all known Toyota's plans for further hybrids for a year now Jon. What they failed to plan was on being able to increase production of the Prius to meet demand,
How long do you figure it takes to build/retrofit the factory to manufacture hybrid engines? What Toyota is doing is making hybrids the top of the line model in every single car. This means new factories, and that takes time. And it will take time and (more) money for US car companies to catch up.

hyperion said:
Don't disregard over one hundred years of automotive no how. It makes darn good sence to support all their endeavors (for the well being of the country) with all the good wishes and financial backing when their cars hit the streets in 2007.
And don't disregard recent history when the Big 3 dropped the ball on economy cars, and let Japanese companies to gain their first foodhold in the American market. Instead of artificial support for GM et.al. just because they are American cars, let's just let capitalism decide who wins or loses.
 
I agree with you about the competition and since the big three were not thinking hybrids as was Toyota to a small, extent I'll bet when the new 2007's hit the dealerships manufacturing will be up to producing enough quantities to meet the demand.
I think it's important to you for your livelyhood to be a little more optimistic about American industry, unless of course you work for a Japanese one. Sure it took Toytota seven years to develop a successfull hybrid but that's cause they were also concentrating on the market to sell cars and they had to get an SUV and some large pick-ups on the market along with Mercedes and Lexas. They planned on small production figures account of the reception received for the classic and were as surprised as the rest of the industry by the explosion of gas prices and the demand helped immensely by the media. The owner of the 2nd largest Toyota dealership in the world, Ernie Boch Jr. does not drive a Prius, nor does the owner of the dealership where I purchased mine and I will make a bet, neither does the owner of the dealership where you bought yours. They probably, if they are smart grab ahold of one of the Lexas H's. But thats a full-sized car.
 
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