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Re: TiVolution rocks!

jflowerus said:
It all sounds interesting, but I'll stick with my 5 VCRs and 200 tapes.

I time shift everything and almost never watch live TV.

Programing a VCR is no problem for me.
Just out of curiosity, what do you actually do if you want to record every episode of a particular show? I'm sure it is possible to do with VCRs, I'm just wondering how you handle it. Also, just because it isn't a problem to program a VCR, doesn't mean it is the best choice. After all, a plain old screwdriver can certainly be used to drive in most screws, but if you have a lot of them to do, a power screw driver sure comes in handy.
 

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Re: TiVolution rocks!

redwein said:
jflowerus said:
It all sounds interesting, but I'll stick with my 5 VCRs and 200 tapes.

I time shift everything and almost never watch live TV.

Programing a VCR is no problem for me.
Just out of curiosity, what do you actually do if you want to record every episode of a particular show? I'm sure it is possible to do with VCRs, I'm just wondering how you handle it. Also, just because it isn't a problem to program a VCR, doesn't mean it is the best choice. After all, a plain old screwdriver can certainly be used to drive in most screws, but if you have a lot of them to do, a power screw driver sure comes in handy.
When my wife reads the paper, she circles all the tv shows I need to record each day and I set up the VCRs.

What I like about the vcr is for example, I can dedicate one tape just for a series like "24" without any other shows on that tape and can watch the whole series straight through

I can program a progam into the VCR in 10 seconds. Speed comes with practice. :D

With a VCR I do not have limited memory. I have 200 VHS tapes and as soon as I watch a complete tape, I rewind it and use it again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Tivo, I just think the VCR is better for me and it's free. :)
 

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Re: TiVolution rocks!

jflowerus said:
What I like about the vcr is for example, I can dedicate one tape just for a series like "24" without any other shows on that tape and can watch the whole series straight through

I can program a progam into the VCR in 10 seconds. Speed comes with practice. :D

With a VCR I do not have limited memory. I have 200 VHS tapes and as soon as I watch a complete tape, I rewind it and use it again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Tivo, I just think the VCR is better for me and it's free. :)
I'm not knocking the VCR here... :)

But with TiVO you can list what you have stored in a menu, which makes jumping around a lot easier than fast forwarding and rewinding.

You can also transfer stuff off your tivo to your computer, which means you don't really have a limited amount of storage.

The VCR costs money, since last I checked tapes aren't free and do break over time...

Finally, the greatest point of the tivo (as mentioned earlier)... you can record something live while watching something you recorded earlier. Time shifting is awesome.
 

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Okay, as the person who started this, I'd like to ask that we stop it? It's not getting anywhere. Those who have tried TiVo know, and those who haven't, don't yet, so all that can be said is as I said -- when you've tried it, come back and post. But either way, it's getting more and more off topic.
 

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HunterGreen said:
Okay, as the person who started this, I'd like to ask that we stop it? It's not getting anywhere. Those who have tried TiVo know, and those who haven't, don't yet, so all that can be said is as I said -- when you've tried it, come back and post. But either way, it's getting more and more off topic.
Right! My fault, sorry.
 

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Jonnycat26 said:
eyeguy13 said:
I think it is really funny that GM adds "Vue Green Line" and they think that makes it environmentally friendly. Like adding the word "green" makes this car a stellar enviro friendly vehicle.
Well, if they're using the same 2.4L 4cyl that's in the cobalt, which is a PZEV engine. So if they keep the same emissions system, they (and ford) could have PZEV hybrid SUVs, while Toyota's hybrid SUV's aren't. Hell of an ironic situation there.
if the green line is rated PZEV hahahaaha i will laugh hard! i wonder what its grams/km is.
 

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ehurtley said:
What's wrong with making SUV hybrids? If anything, making an SUV into a hybrid does MORE for the environment than doing it to a sedan.

>snip<

You're not going to see a 50 mpg Hummer Hybrid, but any time you improve the emmissions profile of a vehicle, it's good!
I agree that improved-mileage SUVs are very good, and if i may i'd like to offer an (and perhaps repetitive, as the analysis is pretty simple, and i'm sure this isn't hte first time the thought was presented) example to support that statement:

if the country had 100 million cars, half of which were 15mpg SUVs and half of which were 45mpg hybrids, and each car drove an average of 15,000 miles, the country would use 66.7 billion gallons of gas per year.

if you improved teh SUVs from 15 to 18, and left the hybrids at 45, we'd use 58.3 billion.

To match that much savings, you would have to double the mileage of the hybrids, to 90mpg, in this example.

So with respect to overall emissions, oil dependence, or whatever other issue you may wish to consider - if one assumes people will drive what they wish to drive - improving the worst mileage vehicles will do more than anything.
 

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You have finally hit it. The free market will dictate what is manufactured and the cost of gas will certainly be an important point.
I believe most of the worlds car manufacturers took a hard look at hybrids as a means of delivering greater milage figures and wrote them off as too complex for mass output. They are all, including the Japanese coming out with more fuel efficient figures in their standard cars and as the price of gas increases so will the improvements. I'm not convinced hybrids are the way the industry will go.
 

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you said "free market will dictate what is manufactured and the cost of gas will certainly be an important point. "


And along those lines... people still want big SUVs. Here where i am, you can't test-drive an '07 Escalade, because they have all been sold sight-unseen, and are owned by the time they come off the truck. The new, more aerodynamic Escalades/Tahoes/Yukons are everywhere.

And its not hard to imagine why.

1. they're really nice

2. they're wildly practical

3. the cost of gas isn't very high. a prius costs $25k and gets 45 (approximately my stats ont he prius). An escalade costs $65k and gets 15... the prius is barely more gas cost as a percentage of vehicle cost. A Range Rover gets 12... and is about the same fuel cost as a % of vehicle cost. Drive 1200 miles/month in a Range Rover = 100 gallons = ~$300 bucks. Yippie skippy when you consider that the payment would probably be 1500 or whatever. People driving hummers/escalades/range rovers/Ferraris/Bentleys/etc. have enough money to just not care about the gas prices.

4. i think they make peopel feel safe, and its hard to put a price on that. data on SUV safety and propaganda from both sides relating to the same (SUV safety), i think a stat sheet has a hard time competing with peoples basic reactions and feelings, and if they feel safe in a big truck, then into a big truck pehraps they will go

Anyway, i'm partially repeating myself and like you, Hyperion, i'm not sure that the Hybrid has a long future ahead of it, but...

If its important to you that the nation use less gas, moving the Tahoe from 14 to 20 (and yukon escalade range rover hummer etc. with it) will save more gas than anything short of getting people to stop driving those and drive little cars or hybrids instead...

and i don't think that (mass defection from SUVs) is likely to happen soon or suddenly. Much of the "SUVs are dead!" "hummer sales are plummeting" stuff is just plain BS or propaganda or whatever. Hummer is the fastest growing brand in the car world today, and the new GM SUVs are selling like hotcakes, at least in this area.

And probably the most common vehicles in this area are full size pickups. The vast majority of which aren't driven mostly for work.

So maybe we would be well off to focus on better mileage SUVs and pickups, and to give some complimentary press to makers that deliver them.

just some thoughts
 

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Hummius said:
And along those lines... people still want big SUVs. Here where i am, you can't test-drive an '07 Escalade, because they have all been sold sight-unseen, and are owned by the time they come off the truck. The new, more aerodynamic Escalades/Tahoes/Yukons are everywhere.

And its not hard to imagine why.

1. they're really nice

2. they're wildly practical

3. the cost of gas isn't very high. a prius costs $25k and gets 45 (approximately my stats ont he prius). An escalade costs $65k and gets 15... the prius is barely more gas cost as a percentage of vehicle cost. A Range Rover gets 12... and is about the same fuel cost as a % of vehicle cost. Drive 1200 miles/month in a Range Rover = 100 gallons = ~$300 bucks. Yippie skippy when you consider that the payment would probably be 1500 or whatever. People driving hummers/escalades/range rovers/Ferraris/Bentleys/etc. have enough money to just not care about the gas prices.

4. i think they make peopel feel safe, and its hard to put a price on that. data on SUV safety and propaganda from both sides relating to the same (SUV safety), i think a stat sheet has a hard time competing with peoples basic reactions and feelings, and if they feel safe in a big truck, then into a big truck pehraps they will go

Anyway, i'm partially repeating myself and like you, Hyperion, i'm not sure that the Hybrid has a long future ahead of it, but...

If its important to you that the nation use less gas, moving the Tahoe from 14 to 20 (and yukon escalade range rover hummer etc. with it) will save more gas than anything short of getting people to stop driving those and drive little cars or hybrids instead...

and i don't think that (mass defection from SUVs) is likely to happen soon or suddenly. Much of the "SUVs are dead!" "hummer sales are plummeting" stuff is just plain BS or propaganda or whatever. Hummer is the fastest growing brand in the car world today, and the new GM SUVs are selling like hotcakes, at least in this area.
Unfortunately, on the flip side, SUVs tip over more easily, don't stop well, don't handle well and heavy SUVs are a danger to others on the road. Kinetic energy=1/2 * mass * velocity^2. How would you like to be t-boned by a 6400 lb. Hummer H2 in your 2890 lb. Prius? From http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/caf ... rFleet.htm, the avg. curb weight of a 04 model year car is 3239 lbs btw. A Chevy Tahoe weighs 5443-5706 lbs.

Although I don't like gas prices where they're at now, perhaps they're still too cheap. If they stayed this way or went up even higher, perhaps people would evaluate whether they really should have or "need" HUGE SUVs? The # of HUGE SUVs on the road here in Nor Cal containing only the driver or maybe 1 child is insane.

Here a story about SUV sales going down http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /606020398.

Here are some sales stats, in case you haven't looked at these before:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060601/auto_sal ... .html?.v=1
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006 ... 09393.html

Sure, the Hummer brand's sales are up YTD because of the H3, but H1 sales are down 21.6% for May 06 compared to May 05. H2 sales are down 37.2% for the same period.

Oil is a non-renewable resource and much of our oil comes from unstable regions of the world and from countries that don't like us much. BTW, Car and Driver at http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/1 ... page4.html got 11 mpg on the Escalade. There's also the aspect of pollution and global warming. People who buy such vehicles and don't really need them obviously don't care about the environment.

I think it's a little extreme that to expect everyone suddenly switching from whatever they've got to small fuel-efficient hybrids, but I just wish some/most of the drivers of huge SUVs who don't go off-roading and don't NEED the space would downsize to something commenserate w/what their rules needs to help reduce our dependence on oil.
 

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I keep trying to convince my best friend that he doesn't need a mini-van. We proved that a hatchback with fold down seats can easily carry his greyhound (we did that in my Prius quite comfortably), and he should use all available vehicles the few times he needs to transport his extended family.
 

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I believe it is great to show off my car and it's high points to all my friends but the last thing I would ever do is try to talk any family man out of a mini-van which is the most comfortable vehicle built for the family. A hatch-back just won't "cut it." If someone "gave" you a Prius, I'm sure you could make do, but the purchase of one at todays prices dosen't make financial sense.
The Prius is a fabulous commuting car especially if you commute daily more than thirty miles. Might even save you money over a three year period. (unless you would be content with a new Corolla)
 

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It is when they complain about finance issues, including gas consumption. There's only three of them in the household now. They can't afford to provide transportation to occasionally carry everyone else.
 

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cwerdna said:
[Unfortunately, on the flip side, SUVs tip over more easily, don't stop well, don't handle well and heavy SUVs are a danger to others on the road. Kinetic energy=1/2 * mass * velocity^2. How would you like to be t-boned by a 6400 lb. Hummer H2 in your 2890 lb. Prius? From http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/caf ... rFleet.htm, the avg. curb weight of a 04 model year car is 3239 lbs btw. A Chevy Tahoe weighs 5443-5706 lbs.
No! Its not too comforting to see a 4-door long-box pickup when driving the prius.

As i have entered non-negative comments about SUVs in a hybrid forum, please allow me the chance to offer some more thoughts

-the anti-SUV thing borders on the maniacal sometimes, and in general i'm leery of propaganda. I'd like to see if highway deaths are up since SUVs rose to power, but i'd like the information from, well, neither http://www.watchmyhummerdriveoverahonda.com or http://www.huffingtonpost.com (first link imaginary). I'll explore your link this evening.

I guess i'm almost instantly distrustful of any info from anybody "on a side" in this situation, which is often more emotional than rational. Please understand that in no way was that comment aimed at anybody on this board, which seems to be about the most discussive and intelligent auto board i've ever seen.



-i think minivans remain the most practical vehicles on the road. but nobody has really done anything with them in years, and while newer things like the pacifica are very, very nice, for a very long time SUVs were >> minivans in overall "niceness"

Although I don't like gas prices where they're at now, perhaps they're still too cheap. If they stayed this way or went up even higher, perhaps people would evaluate whether they really should have or "need" HUGE SUVs? The # of HUGE SUVs on the road here in Nor Cal containing only the driver or maybe 1 child is insane.
I agree. i think higher gas prices - probably alot higher - would go a long way towards causing reconsideration of "need".

I think the current publicity of high gas prices will cause car makers/designers to start offering more things like the pacifica. Practical cars (as opposed to trucks) that have some "now i want one of those" appeal.

minivans lost that appeal to some extent, and it will take some work to give it back to them.

Here a story about SUV sales going down http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /606020398.

Here are some sales stats, in case you haven't looked at these before:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060601/auto_sal ... .html?.v=1
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006 ... 09393.html

Sure, the Hummer brand's sales are up YTD because of the H3, but H1 sales are down 21.6% for May 06 compared to May 05. H2 sales are down 37.2% for the same period.
As of this posting, i've not browsed the links, but thanks for them. Without a doubt the H3 saps sales from the bigger ones, but hummer isn't exactly dead, which was all i wanted to say.

Oil is a non-renewable resource and much of our oil comes from unstable regions of the world and from countries that don't like us much. BTW, Car and Driver at http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/1 ... page4.html got 11 mpg on the Escalade. There's also the aspect of pollution and global warming. People who buy such vehicles and don't really need them obviously don't care about the environment.

I think it's a little extreme that to expect everyone suddenly switching from whatever they've got to small fuel-efficient hybrids, but I just wish some/most of the drivers of huge SUVs who don't go off-roading and don't NEED the space would downsize to something commenserate w/what their rules needs to help reduce our dependence on oil.

In general, i prefer to not judge somebody by what they drive, or indeed to not judge people at all. And it isn't hard to see the attraction in a Tahoe- they are very nice. Those two things were basically all i wanted to mention in my post above - just that, well let me try again very briefly

1. i understand the attraction in SUVs, and i'm not one to judge anybody for anything.
2. if people continue to buy alot of them, there will continue to be alot of them
3. simple math shows that improving the mileage of the worst-mileage vehicles results in large overall reductions in gas use

therefore

efforts to improve the mileages of big SUVs are helpful.
 

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a family of 3 (i have only one child as of now) could get by in the prius, but i don't think there's enough cargo room for a fam of 4 without a roof rack or something along those lines.

at least not the way we pack. and adding a roof box/rack thing will crush aerodynamics and have a notable adverse effect on mileage. And at that point the prius may no longer be the most fuel-efficient vehicle available to a given family.

It probably is (as far as i know) the most fuel-efficient for a fam of 3, but for larger families i'm not sure that's true.
 

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jflowerus said:
I can't help but wonder what would happen to SUV sales if dealers stopped giving $1000 gas certificates with the purchase of an SUV?
i read a press release about "gas price guarantees", but its not applicable in my area so i never really sat down to look at the fine print.
 

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I believe you will find the $1000 gas certificates being made available for SUV's and pick-up trucks being extended to most of the country.
I believe the amount has to be spent by Jan 1 2007. Good deal, almost as good as a tax incentive being subsidized by the U. S. taxpayer, that kicks in on your April 2007 tax form.
 
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