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Gas tank woes-Perhaps why it is not filling up.

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18K views 11 replies 9 participants last post by  Phish Phood  
#1 ·
I'm one of those drivers who really likes to see how many miles I can get on a tank (I'm now shooting for 650 or 700)....so you can guess that I run out of gas fairly frequently.

When filling up, I routinely can't put much gas in the car. A month ago when I filled up (I had run out of gas that time too), the car took only 4.5 gallons before shutting off. In fact it even burped at me! After being astonished, I proceeded to play with the nozzle and put more in eventually getting about 11.5 gallons with a larger burp...I should have stopped at 11.4! Incidentally, I have had very similar early pump shut off problems many times before and took it in once due to that. It was not funny that the DRL replied with a standard written statement totally missing the point that due to the bladder, the gas gauge reads funny. As if the gas gauge is somehow related to why the car can't hold much gas even after running empty.

BUT HERE IS THE POINT:
I noticed that the gas tank opening (mouth or whatever it's called), has what seems to be a rubber gasket which fits very snuggly around the pump nozzle. I live in an area without vapor recovery pumps, so I believe that the vapor is supposed to just leave the tank and escape into the air (who needs clean air anyway...). But the gasket prevents that. Thus the air/vapor pressure builds up inside the tank and causes the pump to shut off prematurely.

To test this, I then held the nozzle very firmly with two hands and pushed it hard either upwards or downwards against this gasket to that a small opening was made on the other side for the vapor to escape. Doing this I have repeatedly been able to fill the car up to approximately 11-11.5 gallons everytime. I could never do this before.

This is the only car that I have ever noticed with such a gasket. Has anyone else noticed this before? Is it just mine? Also, many of you are in areas with vapor recovery. So do you know exactly how the vapor recovery works. I mean, is the vapor recovered from the tip of the pump nozzle or only from the slinky sleeve surrounding the nozzle. If it is just the latter, I can't figure out why the prius would have this gasket.

Richard
 
#2 ·
:idea: Suggestion: ON your Profile, indicate WHERE you are and the YEAR MODEL of your Prius... it will aid responders in providing applicable information.

Running a Prius 'out of gas' is a very risky business, also can be dangerous and inconvenient since you can't specify where you'll be... on a bridge, busy freeway, in a rainstorm, etc. It's interesting that the Prius computer will produce an error code enabling a Toyota tech. to know that you ran out of fuel. You can unnecessarily stress the traction (Hi-voltage) battery and the range running on battery alone is very limited.

There's a reason the Prius fuel gauge is nicknamed "GUESS GAUGE." It is not linear and the fuel bladder varies in flexibility depending on ambient temperature - more flexible when warmer. It is literally impossible to calculate exactly how much range you have remaining at a given time. There are simply too many variables.

Your Prius, your call, but for me, I add fuel when it's convenient and have no ambitions to claim 'how many miles' I can get on one 'tank.'
 
#4 ·
To each his own. Hyper-milers and those who try to go as far as they can (are you listening Dan?) ;).

Vapour recovery nozzles recover the vapour from around the inlet, so wouldn't get much from a Prius.

The rubber seal is supposed to be there to provide some pressure to force the bladder to expand. That it may not work as well as desired is well known by owners, and probably by Toyota as well.

Be aware, overfilling (to the top of the filler neck) will get liquid gas in the car's vapour recovery system, including the carbon canister, and can result in a damaged fuel tank (liquid fuel between the bladder and metal tank). The tank is rather expensive. I suggest not filling the filler neck.

I suspect the damage occurs -after- you replace the gas cap. The fuel is usually held in underground tanks at around 50 deg F. Once in your car it warms up (in most places) to ambient temp and the fuel expands. This can produce quite a bit of pressure if you have already filled the bladder. This pressure can force liquid fuel through the vapour recovery system.

I've seen this expansion in my RX-7. I filled it up one summer "in the boonies". I fill that car to the top of the filler neck, but this time when I was finished the gas started to slowly rise, and flow out. I quickly replaced the gas cap, and wondered what the pressure building would do as I was paying. -In that car- it didn't cause any problems, but I wouldn't want to have that happen in a Prius.
 
#5 ·
hyperion said:
Do you perhaps own a pistol with one empty chamber??
Hyp, you don't know how the game is played. It is with only one chamber FILLED, not one chamber empty.

But I agree, don't make a habit of running out of gas. And certainly don't make a habit of running the battery down until the car shuts off. It will let you power back up after which it will try starting the ICE again, but too many times of that and you'll drain the battery so far that the dealer will have to charge it. And there is only one to three chargers in the country and has to be handled by a specialist from toyota HQ.

To prevent belching, pull the nozzle out every .2 gallons when you get to the last gallon or two. Strange though that you get a shutoff at only 4 gallons. Some pumps are too sensitive though and shut off prematurely. I think some have gotten around or at least helped the problem by inserting the nozzle upside down.
 
#6 ·
We are a new Prius family (well, the wife and I) and, so far, love the car (have about 2,000 miles on it). On a recent trip, we stopped at a Sheetz gas station in middle Pennsylvania to fill up with gas. I tried two pumps there and both would not pump any reasonable amount of gas into the car. Immediately shut off, putting perhaps 0.05 gal in the tank! On the 2nd pump, I finally got it to take gas by keeping the end of the nozzle just outside of the gasket, and listening for the tank to sound full.

I spoke to the station manager (he did not seem to be quite "all there") and he said something about not having vapor recovery systems in that part of the country. Is this a common issue? We are returning from our trip in a couple of days, and will try a different station in that part of the state.