[CWeider]

Quite the change, but just picked my '05 Seaside #6 and love it.** Still trying to digest all the technical information on the various sites, but sadly am still reacting to the Energy display as opposed to anticipating it.

Anyway, couple of quick questions to start off, my dealer (Gettel in Bradenton, FL) neglected to insert the underbody plugs that came with the car; they're still in the glove box. Are they necessary to install? Also, on a few occasions, I have observed that the Energy display indicated the ICE off, however the engine was definitely still running. This has always occurred when idling around in a parking lot or other low speed, low load situations. Is an apparent display lag normal?

Next, are there any absolutes in terms of vehicle speed vs. ICE rpm? I sense different engine rpm's at otherwise identical flat road/same speed situations. Not sure if the rpm is increased based on battery level, or if I can just chalk it up to road surface and/or headwind component.

Lastly, not that I would EVER consider doing this, nor do I see any advantages to it (conversion losses), but would the car let you otherwise override the charging schedule of the HV battery by lightly applying the brakes when driving, thereby using regen against the ICE? Again, I'm just thinking through the various drive/charge scenarios and this kind of popped up in my head. I'm treating this car like it's fine china.

Thanks in advance,

Christopher

**In the end, I still kept the Vette; hedging my bet on love of technology over raw HP.

 

[jeromep]

First off, check out this site for further mechanical information on the power split device and how it works. The example is the previous generation vehicle.

http://www.wind.sannet.ne.jp/m_matsu/pr ... Country=US

Ok, first take the car back to the dealer and insist that they install the plugs per the delivery checklist. While you are at it ask, demand if you have to, to see the completed checklist. If the plug installation was included marked of the checklist and the plugs are in your glove box, that dealer is doing shoddy delivery prep. Speak with the appropriate supervisor about this oversight and you might want to mention it to corporate if the dealer doesn't acknowledge this issue appropriately.

Vehicle speed and RPM are not directly related. This isn't going to be like driving your Corvette. You can't drive by engine sound anymore. There are no absolutes.

Whatever you do, don't left foot brake. The computer system will maintain the battery. The batter gage on the energy display is misleading. It does not indicate the true level of battery charge, only the upper and lower ends of the computer allowed charge constraints, which is 80% of total battery capacity and 40% of total battery capacity. Don't worry about the charge levels, just drive the car. It will do what it needs to do to maintain a charge level that it likes.

 

[mrv]

yes, plugs were supposed to be installed. it's part of the drainage system. I wonder what else of the pre-delivery wasn't done?

Energy monitor is eye candy, nothing more. yes, it has a lag, but there are also times when the engine will be on and it won't tell you (since it will only show energy flow between the engine, motors, wheels, and battery). Most likely what you are experiencing is the preliminary engine warmup (engine runs to warm itself and emissions componets up, such as itself, engine oil, coolant, catalytic converter, O2 sensors, etc.) up to proper operating temperatures. Also, in the cold of winter, the engine may come on to provide the cabin (and therefore the battery pack) with heat, and that engine running also will not be on the Energy Monitor.

With the eCVT in the Prius, you cannot drive by the sound of the engine. Engine speed depends on the power demand, and not the speed that you are going. For example, you're doing 60mph on a level highway. Quiet engine. Then you come to a big hill, so as you go up the engine revs up high (limit around 5000rpm) to provide more power. Then you go down the other side of the hill (still cruising at a steady 60mph), and fuel is cut to the engine (it still freewheel spins for transmission reasons) and you coast down in electric-only (mostly regen). Think of yourself riding a 1-speed bicycle - you'll huff and puff more when you're going up a hill, and relax when you coast down. Same thing.

The Prius takes care of the battery on its own. (Again, ignore the Energy monitor.) Treat it like any other car - drive around in D, don't ride the brakes, anticipate traffic, and stay out of Neutral. No need to baby it. As for pressing the brake while the engine is going, what did you do to stop in your previous car, wait for the engine to stall before braking? I don't see the urgency of your question.

Although it was written for the Classic Prius, not a whole lot has changed with the 2004 Prius so the info still applies. I suggest that you look through:
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyTo ... Frames.htm
and go to "Understanding the Prius"

 

[JDavies]

Christopher:
Try (it's not easy) to drive your Prius like any other 4 door sedan. Try NOT to become a MPG freak. That's an obsession that seemingly controls all waking thoughts of some Prius owners.
The Gas engine (ICE) will tend to have a mind of it's own going up hills. It just goes as fast as the on-board computer tells it to. With a CV transmission; you're not in charge of RPMs anymore. Think of it as a computer with a steering wheel.
It's a fun car and I hope you enjoy it. It won't go around curves like the Vette but it's not too bad either. I ignore the performance screens most of the time but I'm still learning how to program the GPS with voice commands. ~JD~

 

[DanMan32]

Bradenton huh? We should get together whenever one of us decides to cross the bay. I might take my girlfriend on a drive down there to check out that 50's diner.

The Prius will try and keep the battery level at 6 bars. I think I have seen it get to 8 green bars once, maybe twice in the year I have owned it. When it is over 6, it tries to bleed the excess off by using more electric power than ICE power. Don't try and force a charge.

If you are just sitting there, with the car in READY, the ICE will start up at 2 bars to keep the battery properly charged. At a standstill, the car will keep the SOC (State of Charge) between 2-3 bars until you get rolling again. Also, as mentioned, the ICE may stay on longer than anticipated to keep ICE, O2 sensor and catalytic warm, or for other emissions purposes.

 

[CWeider]

DanMan32, I bought the car in Bradenton but actually live in St. Pete; specifically Tierra Verde. Yeah, let's get together, I work for Ceridian (ex-Florida Power campus) as a network analyst. That's on 34th Street South (US19). You can reach me at chris.weider "at" mac.com.

Thanks to all for your replies. I went to check for the plugs again in the glove box, looks like either the dealer installed them after my test drive, or threw them away when I took delivery the next day. I'll have a peek under the car tonight to look for any obvious holes where they should have been installed. Are the holes/plugs obvious to spot w/out a lift?

If not installed, I won't be back for any type of service from that dealer. I am in posession of the checklist that indicates this was completed.

Regards,

Chris

 

[DanMan32]

The plugs are supposed to be installed in the rear right and left underbody.

It seems there are 2 TSBs for the Prius predelivery: PD010-03 and PD016-03. One doesn't seem to refer to the other, but both are needed in order for the pre-delivery to be complete.

 

[e.ip]

Hi all...I just got my Prius this past Saturday , but it looks like my plugs were not installed either (I found them in the glove box).

Does anyone know if there are any negetive effect from not having those plugs installed?

Thx in advance!

Ed

The plugs are supposed to be installed in the rear right and left underbody.

It seems there are 2 TSBs for the Prius predelivery: PD010-03 and PD016-03. One doesn't seem to refer to the other, but both are needed in order for the pre-delivery to be complete.

 

[Rmarchena]

Mister...

Mister....
If you want the green bars when wanted them do this.
Pick a hill with a decent distance going down. Get some speed going down and apply the breaks and keep them pressed while you going down. Try to extend the braking distance as much as you can. Then you will see the green bars. I have done it at all the times.
The breaking regeneration is faster than anything in the car to get the green bars. "I see the green bars whenever I wanted them".

 

[CWeider]

Hi Ed, they (should) be installed just in front of each rear wheel. It was a little difficult to discern just where from the pre-delivery document because the picture was pretty closely zoomed. But there is a decent graphic on the packaging that the plugs were enclosed in. I would think that not having them installed provides a place to water/salt/dirt to accumulate. If you don't have them in the glove box and they are not installed, I'd recommend stopping by the dealership to get them. I certainly don't see a reason NOT to have them in place.

Took the Prius on it's first trip today from St. Pete to Fort Myers to visit some family. 49.3 MPG. at 65-70 MPH. It was a beautiful day, clean car, Nav system gave expert directions, overall a great drive. Pulled in to get dinner tonight and saw another owner with his Silver 2005 who drove down from Virginia. He was pretty much as enthusiastic as I was about the car.

I really love this car.

Chris

 

[e.ip]

Hi Chris...

Strange thing...I just spoke to my dealership, and my sales guy said those plugs are NOT supposed to be installed. :? He said they are for some drainage purposes, and are not part of the PDI (Pre-delivery instruction??).

He said he will find out from a service manager what exactly they're for, and let me know.

Strange.

Aside from that...we took my brand new prius on a good drive the day I got it (Richmond, VA to DC), and I got 47mpg on my first tank, which is pretty darn good comparing to what I would have gotten in my '01 Pathfinder. The Prius is like a giant computer on wheels...which for a geek like me, it's pretty sweeeet!

Ed

 

[DanMan32]

In his sort of defense, I found that there were TWO PDIs for Prius. One dealt with installation of things, such as the fuse, the glove box divider, the plug, etc. The other went over more of the technical stuff to check.

Have the dealer look at TSB PD010--03 and PD016-03. Especially show them page 19 of PD016-03. Then do this:

 

[e.ip]

Ok...here's what I got back from the dealer....

The two plugs I found in the glovebox are for the two holes that a tow-truck might use to pull the car on to a flatbed (which I hopefully never need to use). Although the PDI said to install those plugs...the shop-guys have mixed feelings about them -- they believe since those plugs are not "air tight", moisture (i.e. rain) can seep in and will have a hard time draining out. Thus they believe it is better not having them in at all.

To make a long story short, they said they would be happy to install them if I like, but their recommendations is to leave them out.

Any thoughts?

Thx!

 

[DanMan32]

Might be a good idea to contact Toyota HQ and get their opinion. I doubt Toyota would provide such plugs if they would do more harm.

 

[Beacher]

Pick a hill with a decent distance going down.

Err, that might be tough... the guy lives in Florida. But, there's always the Skyway bridge I suppose.

 

[RSnyder]

Ok...here's what I got back from the dealer....

The two plugs I found in the glovebox are for the two holes that a tow-truck might use to pull the car on to a flatbed (which I hopefully never need to use). Although the PDI said to install those plugs...the shop-guys have mixed feelings about them -- they believe since those plugs are not "air tight", moisture (i.e. rain) can seep in and will have a hard time draining out. Thus they believe it is better not having them in at all.

To make a long story short, they said they would be happy to install them if I like, but their recommendations is to leave them out.

Any thoughts?

Thx!

My dealer's service guys said essentially the same thing way back almost 5 years ago. Since you guys got me curious, I went out just now and felt around inside the hole (rear driver side). It seems there's a lip around the hole, so it can't completely drain, it has to evaporate to dry. It had a thin layer of grit inside and left a thin multicolored layer of dry grime on my finger (it's been really hot here, so evaporation is the order of the day lately). The colors were white, grey, brownish (maybe rust, maybe dirt), and black. Once I'd cleared out an area, the metal below felt smooth, not at all rough like rusty metal.

So I don't think any harm has come from the plugs not being installed, but I can't be sure. I suspect the plug would have kept the grime out (road salts and dirt?). I really can't say whether the plugs would slow down evaporation but they'd have to be pretty airtight to prevent it completely.

Anyway, you'll probably be fine whichever decision you make.

 

[Ray Moore]

OK here goes.

If you hold the brake fully depressed and hold the accelerater fully depressed at the same time, the computer makes the car run the engine at a reasonable RPM and charge the battery. The drive train does not load up like it would in a conventional car. As the car gets closer to the top of the State Of Charge(SOC) range, the idle backs off until at 8 bars of charge the idle is quite low.

The only reason I can imagine for doing this is to get the SOC at a maximum level in preparation for a maximum acceleration run. That's right, dragracing a Prius.

If you do this, let the battery and inverter rest before the run. The heat built up during the charge will somewhat limit the maximum rate of discharge during your run for the checkered flag against the minivan of your choice.