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Even CNET now has a hybrid car section
Yeah. Great stuff indeed. Particularly in the "How hybrids work" section, if you click on the "Traditional car" button after those explaining the differents cases of hybrid cars operation, you will learn that the fuel tank is directly connected to the transmission (but not to the engine). :shock: :lol:

No wonder some people still believe you have to plug in a Prius.
 

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It's a start. But the content is over-simplified, way too generic. That will end up misleading people.

A quick glance at their MPG calculator reveals the reality that they don't take seasonal differences into account... the very thing that has already lead to all kinds of problems with the EPA numbers. There is no "mixed" or "suburb" option either. All you get is "highway" (which obviously doesn't represent the speeds people actually drive at on a highway) and "city" (which technically includes the time you spend on the highway trapped in heavy commute traffic).

That explanation of how they work is a decent theoretical introduction, but does not represent any hybrid actually available. They did actually use the objective phrase of "not all hybrids are created equal". They even pointed out that Prius was a "full" hybrid and Civic-Hybrid wasn't, but only at a very high level. Detail is definitely needed, everything from size & number of motors to emission ratings. Engine size alone is clearly not enough.

As for the future hybrid section, that's just plain weak. Why isn't Camry mentioned? It is currently the best-selling car in America and it will be the first high-volume hybrid to be built in America. Of course, with a website sponsored by Honda... I think we can figure out why.
 

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hyperion said:
I believe the idea is to promote any and all hybrid cars.
That "any and all" is just plain wrong.

The goal is to significantly reduce both emissions & consumption.

Some hybrids don't reduce smog-related emissions at all. Why would we want to endorse a technology/configuration that doesn't offer any improvement?
 

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No, you are wrong according to about 80% of all the postings on this web-site, which is mainly concerned with fuel savings. Of course the less burning of fuel the less polution. People have changed their driving habits since buying their Prius in an effort for more milage. These new habits applied to even an SUV can only give them better milage and with it less polution., and less dependency on foreign oil.
The large percentage of consumers who have not even expressed an interest in hybrids is that they have been put in unsuitable vehicles. The shape, looks, weight of the Toyota model has been based on the desire of more milage per gallon. Toyota has to be commended in the desire for less polution also, but that isn't what has created the huge demand and a lot of exhaust emissions would have been reduced considerably by the consumption of less gas.
We will experiance at least one half less of the present day emissions when the public is given the style car they want along with a hybrid power plant.
Whether it be in a twenty eight thousand dollar Camry or a twenty thousand dollar Malibu sedan. Just think of the fuel savings when this power is applied to pick-up trucks.
I would encourage every car purchaser to demand hybrid power for the good of the world from his favorite marque. Also, if he is about to purcahse something new why not save the cash in your pocket book with the fuel savings experianced by driving ANY type hybrid.
 

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John, you have to do some things in steps and if you think any hybrid will be made which will emit more emissions than what we have at present I believe you are mistaken. Now that Toyota can advertise and promote the emmissions acheived in the Prius anyone would be hard put to ignore them. "COMPETITION." In fact, Toyota will HAVE to continue the practise in the rest of their fleet as they go completely hybrid.
My guess, in the effort of acheiving high milage figures, along with low construction costs, the rest of the world manufacturers including "the big three" will omit the practise of running the ICE at high temps for the catalytic converter and the practise of a resorvoir to keep coolant hot. At least in the temperate months. This would be a good attempt at acheiving what the drivers using the "EV" mode switch are attempting to do now. You really have to look at the whole picture and stop being so dogmatic. Zero emmisions will never be acheived as long as oil is in the picture.
 

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emissions...

"John, you have to do some things in steps and if you think any hybrid will be made which will emit more emissions than what we have at present I believe you are mistaken."

I can't get the SULEV Accord hybrid here in my fine state. I'd have to order it, or actually go to Calif. or NY state or the other 4-5 states where it is sold to get it. Why? the other 45 states don't matter?

Why not just make a better hybrid for everyone who breathes the air, Honda? The 4-cyl gas-only version of the Accord is comparable in MPG AND cleaner...in ALL states. Granted, we don't have smog problems here yet (but there are a few days in winter that it is a problem!) , but why is Toyota working the pollution problem with their hybrids and Honda is not? Could it be the full-hybrid IS actually better (Help me out here SULEV-certified Ford Escape Hybrid).

I've really got to hand it Honda, they've sold me on performance and to hell with making the planet cleaner.

I'm of the thinking that emissions WILL be important sooner than we all wish...thank you Toyota for HSD. Honda can claim all they want that they are greener, but their claim seems cloudy (pun intended).
 

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hyperion said:
Finman, why can't you order anything Toyota makes in South Dakota?
'Cause they don't make anything in South Dakota? :?
 

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AT-PZEV is the emission rating for both Prius & Escape-Hybrid.

SULEV is the emission rating for both RX400h & Highlander-Hybrid.

They are all available nationwide.

Honda refuses to deliver any SULEV rated Civic-Hybrid outside the 5 states supporting CARB. They also decided not to make a SULEV rated Accord-Hybrid available anywhere, even though they already offer a SULEV rated Accord non-hybrid in CA and the competitors are offering cleaner hybrids everywhere. Why?

The point of those new webpages are to promote hybrids. But they still don't answer the question: What should "hybrids" promote?

My response is *BOTH* the reduction of emissions & consumption. Some hybrids don't do this, so we shouldn't blindly give them praise for being a "hybrid". Instead, we should ask questions like: Is it SULEV or AT-PZEV rated?
 

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Well, don't worry abut it. As soon as the US industry gets cranked up you will find every hybrid made meeting at least California emission standards. They have already learned it's much less expnsive to do it this way and I'm sure the Japanese industry will discover it also.
I'm still curious why you can't purchase any and all of Toytota's cars in the Dakotas. Don't tell me it is like the Italian owner who had to go to France to get his Prius cause the Italian government only allowed one set of options!
Certainly a car which meets California's standards can be sold by a dealer in a state regardless of whether they are required.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
hyperion said:
I'm still curious why you can't purchase any and all of Toytota's cars in the Dakotas. Don't tell me it is like the Italian owner who had to go to France to get his Prius cause the Italian government only allowed one set of options!
Certainly a car which meets California's standards can be sold by a dealer in a state regardless of whether they are required.
Hmmm. I just practice ordered a Prius with the AM package to be delivered at two SD dealers. Are you sure it wasn't Honda that doesn't sell their Hybrids anywhere?
 

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It is interesting that one of their articles mentioned that the fuel economy of hybrids get wrose over time as the battery ages and is not as efficient. Has anyone noticed this? Are there any batteries that are close to the end of their life span?
 

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This is true in theory, but I don't think we've seen batteries show age to the point where the mpg drop is detectable. It's a form of "graceful degradation" and is in Microsoftspeak, a feature, not a bug.
 

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Actually, we did get a lady here I think that was looking for a battery pack for her boyfriend's classic. Battery wouldn't hold a charge, which kept ICE running.

But admittedly, it is rare, and also would be gradual. Do we notice when our headlamps are dimming until we replace a bulb? I suppose we might not notice a gradual decrease of MPG over months. Many months. Many many months. And if we did notice, we might attribute it to ICE age <pun intended> rather than the battery being the culprit.
 

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Tadashi said:
It is interesting that one of their articles mentioned that the fuel economy of hybrids get wrose over time as the battery ages and is not as efficient. Has anyone noticed this? Are there any batteries that are close to the end of their life span?
I have heard something along those lines on the Honda lists, as the IMA system does allow for almost complete charge/discharge cycles. The THS is much better at battery management.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
mrv said:
I have heard something along those lines on the Honda lists, as the IMA system does allow for almost complete charge/discharge cycles. The THS is much better at battery management.
Michelle, I think your right as I've even read some Insight owners requiring battery packs and complaining about the cost. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of the EV switch.
 
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