[KTPhil]

That is how the Ford radio ads are describing the PZEV Focus ZX3. I wonder if that is true on a total grams per mile, considering part-time EV mode for the hybrid, or if it is a "grams per hour" of ICE output while running? Anyone know the specs?

And with rebates (but not tax and other crap), they are selling them for $10K and change.

Low pollution can be cheap after all...

 

[hyperion]

Sounds like "a hellava deal."

 

[C.Rickey Hirose]

Sounds like "a hellava deal."

From High Gross Polluter Manufacturer comes PZEV vehicle for $10K
How technology advances at affordable price. Got to see it and read
the manifest in order to believe it !

 

[tochatihu]

ford focus

According to EPA green vehicle guide the PZEV rating does not apply to the 2005 model Ford Focus - perhaps the 06 is improved? In any case, it may be that that rating will apply to the model as sold/operated in the so called CARB states, CA NY VT MA ME.

The units of measure would be grams per mile.

If this alternative to the Prius had been available in 2001 I might have bought it instead...and missed all this chatting fun!

DAS

 

[Spike]

Yeah, but you would have gained all the chats with your Ford service department!

Spike

 

[Jonnycat26]

From High Gross Polluter Manufacturer comes PZEV vehicle for $10K
How technology advances at affordable price. Got to see it and read
the manifest in order to believe it !

I'm sorry crikey, but you make it too easy sometimes...

How come Ford's Hybrid SUV is PZEV and Toyota's is not? Or maybe Toyota can't figure out how to make a PZEV vehicle without a bladder.

 

[DanMan32]

Did a bit of research, apparently it is true.
http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsea ... cturerid=8

Granted, this is a California government website. Doing further research, looks like Ford had PZEV rated Focus since 2003.

 

[ehurtley]

There have been a few PZEV non-hybrids for years. The Focus is only one of them. Toyota also makes a PZEV Corolla, and Honda makes a PZEV Civic.

That means that those cars, do indeed, spit out fewer emissions than, say, the ULEV Honda Insight with Manual Transmission... (Yes, a 34mpg car can have less emissions than a 66mpg car.)

Hrm... Double-checking, it looks like Honda did away with the PZEV (and even the SULEV) Civic. I wonder if they did that when they came out with the Civic Hybrid? For that matter, I can't find the PZEV Corolla, either! WTF?! Ah... Looks like they have PZEV Accord and Camry. I had the lines wrong.

Here's a list of PZEV cars. There are 19 cars on this list, only TWO of which are hybrids.

 

[mrv]

PZEV is the SULEV rating, with also zero evaporative emissions, and a 10 year/150,000mile emissions warranty.

The Classic Prius was SULEV, but was never certified with the zero evaporative emissions/extended emissions warranty.

And yes, you don't need a hybrid to have a PZEV. PZEV is exclusive of CO2 output (which is based on MPG).

 

[ehurtley]

PZEV is the SULEV rating, with also zero evaporative emissions, and a 10 year/150,000mile emissions warranty.

The Classic Prius was SULEV, but was never certified with the zero evaporative emissions/extended emissions warranty.

And yes, you don't need a hybrid to have a PZEV. PZEV is exclusive of CO2 output (which is based on MPG).

IIRC, PZEV didn't become a real rating until 2003, so Toyota probably just didn't want to bother updating/testing the Classic when they knew they had a PZEV 2G coming out at the end of the year. (For example, California says that the actual requirement to go in a carpool lane alone is an alternative-fuel vehicle (no gasoline at all,) or a PZEV with 45mpg or more. Yet it shows that certain pre-2003 non-PZEVs comply because they apparently would have been PZEV if the standard had existed at the time. (Excluding the warranty, I assume.)

 

[coloradospringsprius]

I'm glad to see ANY auto manufacturer touting low emissions.

 

[Tideland Prius]

Ok, and why aren't these vehicles widely available?

 

[Jonnycat26]

Ok, and why aren't these vehicles widely available?

Dunno... my Toyota/Mazda dealer has plenty of PZEV Mazda 3s, which use the same engine/platform as the Ford Focus.

 

[C.Rickey Hirose]

From High Gross Polluter Manufacturer comes PZEV vehicle for $10K
How technology advances at affordable price. Got to see it and read
the manifest in order to believe it !

I'm sorry crikey, but you make it too easy sometimes...

How come Ford's Hybrid SUV is PZEV and Toyota's is not? Or maybe Toyota can't figure out how to make a PZEV vehicle without a bladder.

You got it wrong. The HSD Prius has the AT-PZEV and the 01 to 03 THS
Prius had the SULEV status. and PZEV is the same as SULEV . Toyota
was the 1st one in the "World" to earn that Accolade, Be educated
JohnnyCat26

 

[Jonnycat26]

You got it wrong. The HSD Prius has the AT-PZEV and the 01 to 03 THS
Prius had the SULEV status. and PZEV is the same as SULEV . Toyota
was the 1st one in the "World" to earn that Accolade, Be educated
JohnnyCat26

Crickey, crickey! Did you even read my question? I was just asking why Toyota needs a bladder in the fueltank, and nobody else (Ford, BMW, Mazda, Volvo) needs a bladder to achieve PZEV. I'm not sure what you answered, but it sure wasn't the question asked!

 

[mrv]

You got it wrong. The HSD Prius has the AT-PZEV and the 01 to 03 THS
Prius had the SULEV status. and PZEV is the same as SULEV . Toyota
was the 1st one in the "World" to earn that Accolade, Be educated
JohnnyCat26

Crickey, crickey! Did you even read my question? I was just asking why Toyota needs a bladder in the fueltank, and nobody else (Ford, BMW, Mazda, Volvo) needs a bladder to achieve PZEV. I'm not sure what you answered, but it sure wasn't the question asked!

To get the AT-PZEV, the bladder tank is part of it for the Prius. But as far as I know it's not needed on the PZEV Camry.

2006 ZEV, AT-PZEV, and PZEV list from the California Air resources board:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2006sulevpzevlist.htm
2005 ZEV, AT-PZEV, and PZEV list from the California Air resources board:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2005sulevpzevlist.htm
2004 ZEV, AT-PZEV, and PZEV list from the California Air resources board:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2004sulevpzevlist.htm

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t69080.html claims that there has been a PZEV Camry available since Jan. 2003.

Here's a press release from Toyota talking about the evap system in the PZEV Camry:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_libra ... zevCamry_r

 

[mrv]

Ok, and why aren't these vehicles widely available?

Yeah, I only know of the Prius and the PZEV Ford Focus as being available in all 50 states. (The Canadian Prius is the same as the US Prius, so that should be fine, but I don't know about the Focus sales up there...) Otherwise, you pretty much have to be in CA or a CA emission state (several northeast US states) in order to get the PZEV versions, or have easy ordering of them. In other states, if you find a dealer willing to order or ship one in for you, that's probably the only way to get the PZEV (such as on the Honda hybrids or any of the other makes).

 

[Tideland Prius]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think we have any PZEV vehicles up here (aside from the Prius, new Civic and Escape Hybrid?)

 

[RSnyder]

. . .Crickey, crickey! Did you even read my question? I was just asking why Toyota needs a bladder in the fueltank, and nobody else (Ford, BMW, Mazda, Volvo) needs a bladder to achieve PZEV. I'm not sure what you answered, but it sure wasn't the question asked!

This was answered long ago, but I don't recall the reference anymore. Toyota uses a bladder because the "engine doesn't suck enough". In otherwords, since the engine isn't always running, it can't be relied on to provide vacuum when needed by the emission control systems.

Maybe this is another in the long line of engine driven things that will move to electric motors.

 

[Jonnycat26]

This was answered long ago, but I don't recall the reference anymore. Toyota uses a bladder because the "engine doesn't suck enough". In otherwords, since the engine isn't always running, it can't be relied on to provide vacuum when needed by the emission control systems.

That's entirely possible. But Ford doesn't use a bladder on the Escape Hybrid, and Honda isn't using one on the upcoming Civic Hybrid. Both them offer Electric only propulsion.

Given Toyota's history with the Prius, I suspect the bladder was just the cheapest option.