[deansdad]

You've all been there before I'm sure, and not only a first time poster but also probably the "newest" of newbies on the board so bear with me....

Me - I'm sold.....ready to board the P-train at almost any cost....mind is made up - been mulling it over since NYC auto show two years ago when I was first exposed to P. (salesmans dream-I know, but there is a caveat)

SO - she's a dyed in the wool Camry fan and a lady of strong convictions, pretty good logic, and even stronger influence <g>.

Which.....brings us to the issue.

After a spirited debate/discussion of the relative merits of C(amry) vs. P(rius) - she notices the "Comparator"........
"Let's just do that" - says she.

So we do.
Needless to say - our stroll down the list of comparisons wasn't the high point of her day (especially on a Friday night, at the end of a particularly stressful week)

But.....
As is almost always the case - dig deep enough and there's something to hang your hat on.

In this case it required hanging on to the last minute...to the very end of the comparator.....the part about "Front Seat Adjustments".

C = "electric seat height adjustment" = YES
P = "electric seat height adjustment" = N/A

Okay......"you gotta be kidding - dealbreaker????" sez you

"With all the other comparisons coming out unequivocally in favor of the P as the "smart" choice, why are you wasting time on minutia?"

Makes perfect sense to me........those of the male persuasion much smarter than me will have to explain it to you <g>.....trust me - it's got something to do with that logical/emotional side of the brain but it's not an argument that's winable.

Anyway.....logic/emotion aside......the loggerheads really does pose a couple of pretty good questions (the astute will recognize my motivation here in a flash <s>)

First.......with options like VNAV, etc. available in the "decked out" package BC - why in the world would electric seats not have been included somewhere along the line when they are in almost every other model line? What the heck was T marketing thinking?

Second.....and more importantly (if I have a snowballs' chance in...) of keeping the logical, buying process on track (ok, you caught me.....I need HELP here!!) - is the missing electric seat adjustment really an issue?

Re-reading the question, I can see where the focus seems to be on "electric".....that's not the case, nor the issue with her.
The issue is the ability to adjust the drivers seat vertically, which the electric seats in the (eg) Camry....allow.

Is it a problem that the P doesn't?

 

[DonJasper]

Driver comfort is a legitimate issue I think.

http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=4328

I love our Prius. Who cares about mileage and all that? Do SUV owners justify their purchases? No. They buy them 'cause they're cool. I think the Prius is a seriously cool car.

However while all the rest of the car is 21st century, the seating is out of the 1980's. I was surprised. While it works for me (and my wife), I could see where someone could find the seating comfort lacking.

In your case I'd suggest a test drive. There are items in the Prius's favor - it's a d*mn quiet car for one. And the butter smooth acceleration (no shifting gears) another. And you might find it's not an issue. Look at it this way - if you buy the thing and it does turns out to be an issue - then whatever joy you get out of the car will be easily overwhelmed with the Unhappy Spouse syndrome.

 

[hyperion]

Witrh the Prius you get something unique. A conversation piece and super gas milage. With the Camry you get more of a normal car. More comfort and the amenities you have gotten used to. Also excellent gas milage and probably a lot better deal financially.

 

[An04Prius]

Try this:

Get her to sit in drivers seat of both a Prius & Camry, presumably to test the seating position. Take a pic (or several) of both...in various positions.

Later, at home, during decision time, looking at the pics, say:

"sweetheart, you are right, the electric seat is a deal maker, we should get the Camry

...but damnit :!: if you dont look younger and thinner in the Prius, must be the design..."

 

[Jonnycat26]

I've found the seat to not be an issue for short trips... but for long trips, it's definetly lacking in support.

I know there have been homebrew solutions posted here to remedy the solution... but it's 2004... the car has worse seats than my old '87 cavalier.

 

[Hep]

The Prius seat does not adjust vertically. That is only an issue, of course, if you don't like where it is. My wife has a Camry, and I have the Prius. When both cars are in the garage and she needs to go somewhere, guess which car is missing? That's why every now and then I have to drive her car. Four drivers in our family and the Prius wins 4:0 over our much loved Camry. And she doesn't even care about the cool gadgets (What's with that?). She just likes the car better.

 

[hyperion]

I think everyone agrees. For short trips around the block the Prius seats are no problem. Sort of like sitting on a bar stool. You wouldn't want to do it all day, or would you? If so, go out and buy the Prius.

 

[Victor]

You must have different seats in the States than in Europe. My seats adjust in height and comfort has never been a problem. My longes trip in a day was 1400Km and when we got back I felt a lot fresher than I have in any other car doing the same distance.

 

[bshef]

omg......she sounds like a real sweeeeetheart ! Cant' even reach down and pull a lever to adjust the seat.....geeeeeesh!

Sounds to me like she has "other issues" besides just the seat deal that is holding her back. Whose car will this purchase end up being anyway? Your's or hers? Or is she the one primarily paying for this? My wife was like...."well honey, if it makes you happy....it makes me happy"!

If all she is concerned with is comfort in the seat department......well......go buy her a big electric adjustable massage pillow.



You might also mention (if she can comprehend this) that since the P* doesn't use it's ICE all the time like a regular car......maint. is almost cut in half!

Good luck........I wonder if there is a Camry board some where with a couple that has the exact opposite problem? :roll:

 

[C.Rickey Hirose]

Seats or quitness ?

You must have different seats in the States than in Europe. My seats adjust in height and comfort has never been a problem. My longes trip in a day was 1400Km and when we got back I felt a lot fresher than I have in any other car doing the same distance.

Hello Victor, I think not only the Prius seats ergonomics but the feel
of almost no fatigue after returning from a long trip is due to, also the
co-effient of drag ? thus quitness in the cabin. I drive my 97 twin turbo
from time to time but the ICE is very quite for a performance vehicle due
to muffling of exhaust sound through the turbos. However the road noise
intrudes into the cabin and after a few hours drive I'm already feeling fatigued but driving the Prius, the NVH ( noise-vibration-harshness) is almost non-existent ... So one do not get tired as much..

 

[Ray Moore]

I have made three trips of 870 miles in the Prius. These trips involved 14 hour drives wth one half hour meal stop and one gas stop and a few RR stops. None of the three occupants suffered any noticable fatigue. My spouse had declared, based on years of travelling in suburbans and large trucks with captains chairs, that 300 miles was the absolute limit of her endurance. Thanks to the Prius, we can now plan much longer car trips than that. On our flight to Hawaii, she got so tired of the business class seating, she ended up standing in the seat bouncing around like a kid. No problem after twice that long in the Prius. I am, by the way, 6'4" tall. I sometimes use a small pillow under my right leg to support my thigh.

 

[deansdad]

Thanks to all for the candid, honest, and enlightening replies.

The obvious next step is, as one poster (Don?) suggested - a test drive which we are off to do this afternoon.

While the opinions expressed weren't exactly (for the most part) what I was hoping for <g> - they certainly were well thought out and, as you might imagine - sparked a lively discussion here. <s>

In the broader picture, I wonder what the T suits were thinking??? Of course one can rationalize with statements like "can't please all of the people all of the time..." or "...look at all the other features..." but this isn't a $7000 Yugo we're talking about and, like it or not - Creature Comfort really is a major concern to many folks - not just those with "other issues".

One would think that someone at T would stand up and take notice when not one of the respondents on this, admittedly small and unscientific, poll said "the seats are great, comfortable, a real joy to behold."

Anyway, we both thank you for your time and input.
SO did want me (actually, she wanted to herselft but discretion being the better part....<g>) to make special mention of a couple bshef's comments:
First - you are right on target, she IS a "sweetheart" (in my mind at least, and probably not exactly in the way you intended),
Secondly - I guess I wasn't clear that the issue really wasn't "...can't even reach down and pull a lever to adjust the seat....geeeeeeeesh" it is that the "lever" for verticle adjustment doesn't exist. You should know that she's not only a sweetheart, she's a tiny (or is it "petite" to be PC?) sweetheart who will be driving the car on occasion.
Finally - the "other issues..." comment didn't really go over too well so I figured I better leave the "is she paying for it" alone <bg> - BUT the "big electric adjustable massage pillow" idea was a real hit with her!!!!! Thanks a lot pal - now we have to add the purchase of one of those to our itinerary for the day <VBG>

Thanks again for your time and thoughts......will post back how the test drive experience goes.

 

[Astrowoman]

For what it's worth the seat height adjustability was something I thought I would miss a lot... and if I could, I'd lower the seat slightly. But, I have found a comfortable position and had no complaints even on our one long road trip, so... it's something they probably SHOULD have included with all the bells and whistles (anyone listening?) but I bet she'd learn to be happy without it.

 

[bshef]

<speechless>

- good diddily luck Ned!

 

[richard schumacher]

"Logic"? Bah. I've seen it, it's rubbish. Logic is tiny bird in huge valley. Logic is bouquet of pretty flowers that smell bad.

Ahem. Anyway. After the test drives, when she still prefers the Camry, buy the Camry and be happy. This is an argument of emotion, which you cannot win even (or especially!) if you win.

 

[PriusNH]

Welll, I'm a tiny wife that absolutely loves the Prius. I'm just over five feet tall, and have no problems with the seats. One thing that the Prius has over the Camry...they're more of a head turner. Camry's are all over the place. A Prius shows that you really thought of gas mileage and effect on the environment. Creature comforts are great (we've got the loaded one with the voice navigation), and I'd have loved a heated leather seat option...but you've got to make sacrifices somewhere ;-) !

 

[Jonnycat26]

In the broader picture, I wonder what the T suits were thinking??? Of course one can rationalize with statements like "can't please all of the people all of the time..." or "...look at all the other features..." but this isn't a $7000 Yugo we're talking about and, like it or not - Creature Comfort really is a major concern to many folks - not just those with "other issues".

I often wonder what the T suits were thinking myself. I would have glady paid a little more to eliminate some of the hard plastic. And I just noticed a few evenings ago there are actually exposed screws in the interior door handles. I certainly don't expect *ANY* exposed screws in a 26,000 car.

 

[jeromep]

Hard plastic seems to be the defacto item in vehicles from all makers today. The real issue is how the hard plastics look and feel. Let's just say that the hard plastics that GM uses are very different than the hard plastics Toyota uses, or Ford uses. I'm impressed with the plastics in the Prius. They seem to fit well and fell nice to touch. I'm not sure I would call them warm, but I wouldn't call them cold or cheep. GM's plastics leave a lot to be desired. They seem thinner than some other manufacturers, and the textures they choose to use are... well... strange. The thing about this argument is that it is highly personal and related only to opinion and personal taste.

I'm not all that dismayed by having exposed screws on the door panel. I believe the only exposed screw is in the interior handle on the armrest. That isn't too bad really. There are lots of cars out there where there are exposed screws up and down the sides of the door panels to keep them on the door.

Sure, power seats would have been nice, and I do wonder why they were excluded, however what I got was pretty nice anyway. I just hope that power seats aren't a huge reason why other buyers might shy away from the Prius. What I'm saving in gas easily makes up for not having power seats, or leather for that matter (at least in a psychological way).

 

[hyperion]

Gas savings is one heck of an excuse! ..... Amazing, Japanese plastic is better than GM plastic!!

 

[mrv]

How soon do you need a new car?

Rumor has it that a hybrid version of the Camry should be due out in late 2006.