[Tony Liscio]

I just read a news release on Google search PRIUS. The GM is planning to build a hybrid to compete with and be better than the Toyota Prius. Thats a laugh and more mind control stuff GM puts out to stop people from looking at or even thinking about what Toyota has perfected over 7 years. I sent an email to the reporter that may be posted
at their site. What a laugh I got out of that report just talk no action GM.
:lol: :roll:
Tony Liscio 2004 Toyota Prius Tideland Pearl 10'03 option #7, in 5 car shows.

 

[hyperion]

Somewhere on this thread I believe is a posting I made last week. I was going thru my copy of the New York Times when I got to page six, section one. A FULL PAGE ad by General Motors superimposed on the top of the American Flag in color. It stated that you don't have to wait for a G. M. powered hybrid. You can now purchase a GM pickup truck with Hybrid power. They further stated that they now have a fleet of hybrid powered buses on the streets of Seattle which are saving the city $77,000 a year on fuel costs and that these fleets will soon be on the streets of Atlanta, New Orleans and Los Angeles. They are doing this to help decrease Americas need of foreign oil. Furthermore the ad stated that in the year 2007 every car model constructed by GM would be Hybrid powered. Hey, I read it in the "Times"

 

[Daniel]

...and be better than the Toyota Prius...

Ha ha ha ha hooo hooo hoo hee hee hee... Ah, it's good that someone out there has a sense of humor.

 

[SkipHuffman]

these fleets will soon be on the streets of Atlanta

Um. Atlanta has been converting to CNG busses for some time. Honestly they are pretty nice. I can sit behind one on my scooter and not get blasts of diesel. I kind of doubt Atlanta will drop all the investment in CNG and go with hybrid.

 

[hyperion]

That ad cost GM a heck of a lot of cash. I think it was like throwing down the "guantlet" Don't see how they could back out now. I posted the ad on my garage wall. And don't knock American engineering. I still think it's the best in the world. They've been encouraged to ignore hybrids because of government policy but the gloves are off now.

 

[jnmadice]

Toyota/GM collaboration

It is my understanding that they will be using part Toyota hybrid technology in that GM car hybrid.

Toyota and GM have worked together before when GM had a sister car similar to the Corolla. Don't remember the name...Check Consumer Reports Car Issue a couple years ago.

It will be interesting to see if GM can fill the orders in a more timely manner than Toyota. Not that the product will be as good, but you can't drive what you don't have.

 

[Jonnycat26]

hrm...

Everybody should really be quite happy that GM is building a hybrid to compete with the Prius. More competition means better products, from everyone. Who knows, maybe GM will put a proper adjustable seat in their car, and Toyota will have to do the same with the Prius.

I've owned several GM cars over the years, and while they're not the best in terms of squeaks and rattles, they never had engine troubles and I do believe that even today GM builds a superior body than anyone else (I could have driven my Olds thru acid and I think it would have survived).

And remember, Toyota is a company just like any other company... they have their interests at heart. I like my Prius, but competition can only make it better.

 

[Bob Allen]

Re: hrm...

Everybody should really be quite happy that GM is building a hybrid to compete with the Prius. More competition means better products, from everyone. Who knows, maybe GM will put a proper adjustable seat in their car, and Toyota will have to do the same with the Prius.

I've owned several GM cars over the years, and while they're not the best in terms of squeaks and rattles, they never had engine troubles and I do believe that even today GM builds a superior body than anyone else (I could have driven my Olds thru acid and I think it would have survived).

And remember, Toyota is a company just like any other company... they have their interests at heart. I like my Prius, but competition can only make it better.

Amen. I agree that American engineering is top notch; companies build what makes them money. Once we the government (and the public) get onto subsidizing what we want/need more of (hybrids, alternate energies)
and taxing what we need less of (gas guzzlers and waste), American technology can put this country in the forefront of new technology.

 

[john1701a]

Compete?

What they are proposing can't even compete with the 2004 Prius (emissions, efficiency, price, etc.)

Imagine what 3 years of continued tweaking will make Prius like in 2007.

 

[Jonnycat26]

Compete?

What they are proposing can't even compete with the 2004 Prius (emissions, efficiency, price, etc.)

Imagine what 3 years of continued tweaking will make Prius like in 2007.

Are you on the GM board of directors? Do you know what they're going to offer? All I've seen is conjecture to this point. I'd imagine it has to be different than their Silverado system, that's a given.

Let's stop the fanboyism, bash the other guys at any cost type attitude. Competition helps everyone.

 

[john1701a]

No conjecture necessary.

Since last spring GM has been talking about how they have dropped plans for their full hybrid design (intended for Vue) and plan on just improving their mild design (first generation now in Silverado) instead.

I suggest doing some searches through Google's News feature. You'll find statements from GM there.

 

[Jonnycat26]

No conjecture necessary.

Since last spring GM has been talking about how they have dropped plans for their full hybrid design (intended for Vue) and plan on just improving their mild design (first generation now in Silverado) instead.

I suggest doing some searches through Google's News feature. You'll find statements from GM there.

Sorry, that's not right. Since this is new, and they've never mentioned a car before, this could be a new design. Until someone says something to the contrary, the best attitude is a sit and wait approach.

Old news stories are probably not applicable to a new development.

 

[john1701a]

"Everybody should really be quite happy" directly contradicts that... by the way.

Seriously, at what point should we acknowledge an achievement?

- Some say when the model year of the upcoming debut begins.

- Some say when the debut of that vehicle itself occurs.

- Some say when the second model year begins.

- Some say when the first 100,000 are finally on the road.

- Some say not until the technology is available on more than a single vehicle.

Timing is a rather important question, because we have already seen several examples of Japan-only and only-certain-states rollouts. And of course, quantity available has been a very big issue too.

It's just like the "generation" question. Many fought me when I pointed out the facts that Prius is now on the third and that other automakers will label their "generations" with far less differences. And sure enough, that's what's happening now.

In other words, past & future play a huge role in the way we should respond to present events.

 

[Jonnycat26]

"Everybody should really be quite happy" directly contradicts that... by the way.

Blah, blah, blah.

John, I know you're the toyota cheerleader, and as far from impartial as can be. So be it. All I'm saying is, competition doesn't hurt. Nobody knows what GM is going to do. Nobody. Not me, not you.

If GM comes out with something like Honda's IMA, and throws it into a G6 (the new Grand AM) or Cobalt and sells it for 18K, think that won't have an impact?

A little history lesson... back in the late 80s/early 90s, ABS was a very expensive option on cars. It was mostly confined to high end cars. GM decided to make ABS standard on *every* GM car. You could get a Cavalier for under 10K with ABS. That was, at the time, unheard of. And look at how common ABS is today. GM had a little something to do with that.

Everyone should hope that when GM releases specs and features, it's a home run. More competition means a better product for everyone.

 

[hyperion]

And personally, Id'e bet on G.M. Now they have a direct message of what the American buyer wants. I've been waiting for the government to "encourage" them but "no way" Now they see the handwriting on the wall. They led the world in the SUV movement and even got the Japanese and Germans to build them. Now they are going after the "hybrids" The best message to them is being given by the Toyota dealers advertising the Prius priced and selling over MSRP. Love my Prius but I believe the "fly" is about to be swatted". About time.

 

[ricksprius]

I think what John is refering to is GM plans like this:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/9863645.htm?1c

..."GM officials said the hybrid Malibu would be 10 percent more fuel-efficient than its combustion counterpart, which is rated by the Environmental Protection Agency at 24 miles per gallon in the city and 35 on the highway....The Malibu hybrid's engine shuts off when the vehicle slows to less than 6 mph. At that time the car's brakes and steering run on electro-hydraulic systems."

So this car will get a whopping 10% jump to 26.4 City and 38.5 Highway, and go on electric under 6mph.

Big deal. On flat surfaces, and of course down hills, I can get my 2003 Prius going 25-30mph using only elelctric.

Same article does however say "...The hybrid Escape, a small SUV, is about 44 percent more fuel-efficient than the standard Escape, which gets about 21 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway."

Well, I guess that is an improvement. Problem is that is still an SUV...

 

[Jonnycat26]

I think what John is refering to is GM plans like this:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/9863645.htm?1c

..."GM officials said the hybrid Malibu would be 10 percent more fuel-efficient than its combustion counterpart, which is rated by the Environmental Protection Agency at 24 miles per gallon in the city and 35 on the highway....The Malibu hybrid's engine shuts off when the vehicle slows to less than 6 mph. At that time the car's brakes and steering run on electro-hydraulic systems."

So this car will get a whopping 10% jump to 26.4 City and 38.5 Highway, and go on electric under 6mph.

Big deal. On flat surfaces, and of course down hills, I can get my 2003 Prius going 25-30mph using only elelctric.

Same article does however say "...The hybrid Escape, a small SUV, is about 44 percent more fuel-efficient than the standard Escape, which gets about 21 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway."

Well, I guess that is an improvement. Problem is that is still an SUV...

38.5 isn't anything to pout about... and we don't know what they're doing. It sounds like a mild system, like the Hondas... are they adding this to the OHV V6? How much performance is it adding? Until all the facts are available, it's too early to render judgement. But like a few others here, I want to see GM do well because competition is good for everyone.

 

[zinzindorff9]

Everyone seems to have jumped right over the presidents statement last night that the government has spent 30 million dollars on the developement of "hydrogen" powered cars to make us less dependant on foreign oil. Even Kerry missed that remark.

 

[Jonnycat26]

Everyone seems to have jumped right over the presidents statement last night that the government has spent 30 million dollars on the developement of "hydrogen" powered cars to make us less dependant on foreign oil. Even Kerry missed that remark.

Great... but 30 million dollars is nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. That's such a small sum in terms of huge R&D projects it makes me laugh.

Ha. Ha ha ha.

Something like the Escape Hybrid probably cost hundreds of millions to develop, and it's got a conventional gas engine it for christs sake.

 

[zinzindorff9]

Jonny, You missed the punch word """HYDROGEN"""" Thats the thought in the mind of the President. """NOT HYBRID""" Will someone be able to change it???