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Nothing new. The problem is getting an efficient way of producing and/or distributing hydrogen. Even the Prius could be adapted to run on hydrogen, either through the ICE, or adding a fuel cell to power MG2.

As a matter of fact, someone HAS adapted the prius to run on hydrogen stored in solid pellets. This was supposed to make the hydrogen storage safer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
we'll see in the next few years... Olympics are in Vancouver for 2010 and they claim the highway between Vancouver and Whistler will be the "Hydrogen Highway" with hydrogen refueling stations along the way. Not sure what they'll be fueling with it? Perhaps an imaginary fleet of Hydrogen busses?

Seems likely something will happen as Ballard Power Systems who first developed the hydrogen fuel cell is based in Vancouver.
 

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Anyone interested in the subject of hydrogen vehicles should consider reading the 2004 book,
by Joseph J. Romm, "Hype About Hydrogen". I found it at my local library.
 

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Fuel cells will be running your lap-top long before they are running your car.
 

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I found the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" which just came out on DVD, very informative on electric, hybrid & fuel cell vehicles.

The man who wrote the book I referenced above (Joseph J. Romm, "Hype About Hydrogen") is interviewed in the movie.
 

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fish_antlers said:
we'll see in the next few years... Olympics are in Vancouver for 2010 and they claim the highway between Vancouver and Whistler will be the "Hydrogen Highway" with hydrogen refueling stations along the way. Not sure what they'll be fueling with it? Perhaps an imaginary fleet of Hydrogen busses?

Seems likely something will happen as Ballard Power Systems who first developed the hydrogen fuel cell is based in Vancouver.
There is a lot of hype, and some very expensive prototypes are on the road, but there just isn't a market for half million dollar cars with limited range and that need new fuel cell membranes ($30,000) every 15 thousand miles. Hydrogen storage is a major problem, requiring either large heavy expensive 10,000 psi (yes, 5 tons per sq. inch!) pressure tanks, or large expensive liquid hydrogen flasks (-422 F), or heavy large expensive metal hydride tanks that take 20 minutes to fill.

Low efficiency is a problem, as fuel cells only do 45% to 60%, electrolysis less than 50% and it uses lots of energy just to pack the hydrogen into storage. LiIon battery cars are much cheaper than fuel cell cars, last longer, and at 85% efficiency, much better than fuel cells. Hydrogen cars are obsolete before they even come to market!

So Vancouver will waste money putting in showcase hydrogen filling stations that will rarely if ever be used - and will never make money. So what? It's only goverment funds squandered for nothing.

Oh, and Ballard did NOT invent the fuel cell. it was invented in 1843 by William Grove.
 

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DanMan32 said:
As a matter of fact, someone HAS adapted the prius to run on hydrogen stored in solid pellets. This was supposed to make the hydrogen storage safer.
A company called "Quantum" adapted 6 Priuses (Priii?) by taking out the fuel tank and spare tire and putting high pressure hydrogen tanks in it's place. Most of the trunk space disappeared. The engine was modified to run on hydrogen, but otherwise unchanged. These "hydrogen Priuses" get an amazing 80 miles on one tank of hydrogen. :roll:

Still, that's an improvement over the GM "Hywire" fuel cell prototype, it only got 65 miles per tank.
 

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DanMan32 said:
Nothing new. The problem is getting an efficient way of producing and/or distributing hydrogen. Even the Prius could be adapted to run on hydrogen, either through the ICE, or adding a fuel cell to power MG2.

As a matter of fact, someone HAS adapted the prius to run on hydrogen stored in solid pellets. This was supposed to make the hydrogen storage safer.
DanMan32, You are one of the residents technical Guru. Read this letter that came to me and forwarded to Toyota. Long post but could be valid....

Dear Mr. C.Rickey Hirose:



Idalex Inc. would be very interested and honored to review with and you and TOYOTA a new power generator, which realizes the patented Maisotsenko Power Cycle (M-Cycle). It is a new proven concept in heat recovery and power generation, which uses unique regenerative process for increasing the moisture in the compressed air stream.



Our technology (the M-Cycle) is the revolutionary thermodynamic breakthrough for producing power, which realizes today the best heat (enthalpy) recovery process for any kind of a combustion engine (see our U.S. Patent No 7,007,453).


The power generator, which realizes the M-Cycle, has a minimum efficiency of 55%, small in size, light in weight, low maintenance, with a broad power band. Essentially the ideal is to compress 1/3 less air then in a conventional combustion engine, evaporate the equivalent mass of water into the compressed air using a small amount of energy to pump the water up to pressure and the special regenerator (heat and mass exchanger), putting the humid air through a combustion process. When water is evaporated in the compressed air in this way, it becomes a portion of the working fluid itself, thus increasing the volume of working fluid without mechanical compression.

The engine through the M-Cycle becomes less then half the size of a standard engine to generate the same amount of power. This is possible because much more power produced by the engine goes to the drive train rather then to compress air as in a standard engine.
In addition and because of the higher efficiency in this engine, pollution is dramatically reduced due to the water vapor creating a more even burning process during combustion. Additional water will not be needed, because the M-Cycle constantly reclaims water in the exhaust gas.

The most important component of the M-Cycle for the power generator is the unique regenerator. It is the special heat and mass exchangers that becomes the saturator to humidify and heat the compressed air by the outgoing exhausts gas. This saturator allows the lowest possible temperatures around 70-100°C (160-212°F) to be obtained in the outgoing exhausts gas by evaporating water by special way into the compressed air. It can get high potential benefits for producing power, and using just one the M-Cycle through this saturator. This saturator as the unique regenerator is covered under our U.S. Patent No 6,948,558.

Realizing the M-Cycle through this saturator, it minimizes its size of the heat and mass transfer surface, pressure losses, and capital cost by using a souped-up heat transfer process.
It is possible to get 55% or more of thermal efficiency for a conventional combustion engine, using the TOYOTA existing accomplished technologies for manufacturing of a conventional regenerator with small modification for realizing the M-Cycle.

The M-Cycle has high potential benefits for any existing power cycle application (combustion turbine cycle, Rankin cycle, internal combustion (Otto) cycle, Diesel cycle, Stirling cycle and etc.). It is easy to realize the M-Cycle for any gas engine. In this case, it is necessary to use our saturator instead the conventional recuperator (regenerator).

Look the advantages of the M-Cycle for a vehicle in contrast with the standard internal combustion engine:

a. The standard off-the-shelf Otto or Diesel-cycle engine can perform at increased specific power with nominal 55%-65% efficiency, while at the same time having only trace emissions. However in actual practice these engines operate at efficiency about 30%-35%.
b. Fuel consumption reduction (up to 25-40% as per our preliminary evaluation);
c. Environmental pollution reduction (up to 7-10 times as we are expecting);
d. The tremendous detonation suppression using high compression ratio, which make more efficient use of the energy in fuel, and also produce more power, than those with a lower compression ratio;
e. Reduce the size of an engine by at least 1/2 for the same power produced;

f. Reclaim water by condensing from exhaust gas;
g. Allow varying amounts of water to be evaporated, making for a wider power band.
h. Reduction cost of elimination the catalytic converter;

i. Less complex and expensive for the exhaust gas aftertreatment systems;

j. Elimination the need for a turbocharger.


There are many new patents, publications and several prototypes from USA, Japan, Sweden, Russia and etc. that have proven the concept, but the M-Cycle has thermodynamic advantages because 1) it can get more water vapor and consequently more mass into the engine and 2) it can recover more heat for engine from the outgoing exhausts gas. The viability has been proven under different patents and proof of concept lab engines.

We strongly believe that the M-Cycle will give the opportunity together with TOYOTA to own a new technology that can revolutionize power generation and automotive business and the economy as a whole.

Attached:

1. The M-Power Cycle, U.S. Patent No 7,007,453, "Power System and Method".

2. The saturator for the M-Power Cycle, U.S. Patent No 6,948,558, " Evaporative Duplex Counter Heat Exchanger".

3. Wicker, K., "Life Below the Wet Bulb: The Maisotsenko Cycle", Power Magazine, vol.147, No 9, November/December, 2003.

Please allow me a brief introduction of our Company. Idalex Inc. is a small R&D firm.
We have patented the M-cycle for cooling fluids and power production.

Our first product using the M-Cycle for cooling air won the 2004 R&D 100 award.

The world leader in automotive thermal technology Delphi Corp. has since license the manufacturing right to produce the special heat and mass exchanger, which realizes the M-Cycle, and has just begun to mass-produce this product for stationary air conditioning (for example, see our cooling technology U.S. Patents 6,497,10 7; 6,581,402; 6,705,096; 6,776,001; 6,779,35 and etc.). ..

The U.S. Dept. of Energy (NREL) is one of our biggest proponents having tested and demonstrated M-Cycle technologies for the last three years.

There may be a mutual beneficial relationship we can develop.

Please go to web sites at http://www.idalex.com and http://www.coolerado.com

I look forward to hearing from you.

Dr., Prof. Valeriy Maisotsenko
Chief Scientist,
Idalex Technologies Inc.
4700 W. 60th Ave., #3
Arvada, CO 80003,
Phone: 303-375-0878
Fax: 303-375-1693
http://www.idalex.com
 

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Hmm, perhaps it is combining a combustion engine principle with a steam engine principle.
I believe one of the reasons no water is lost is because on of the emissions components of the combustion of fossil fuels is water.
A combustion engine is a heat engine, as is a steam engine. From what I recall in physics class, the max theoretical efficiency of a heat engine output to energy input is 33%.

We'll have to see how this all pans out. Lots of quacks claim government agencies endorse their claims, and anyone can get a patent for just about anything. You'll find a dozen cat amusement toys that are nothing more than a laser light pen. I'll bet that you'll eventually see claims that such patents are featured in movies, like 'Over the Hedge'.

DanMan32 wrote:
many homes are using hydrogen to store electrical energy obtained from solar panels.

How do you define "many" and where are these homes?
OK, maybe 'many' was the wrong word to use. I saw this featured in a home improvement show. It might have been 'This Old House', but it could have been a different show.
 

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Danman,

The theoretical maximum efficiency for a heat engine is about 40% (varies with available working temperature difference). This is good since some have achieved 36% in the real world. Auto engines don't quite achieve these numbers, but the Prius engine does well (low 30's) due to its unorthodox heat cycle and diesels have somewhat higher efficiencies (usually overstated since their fuel has more energy content that gasoline).

JeffD
 
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