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ken:

you cant compare the freewheeling of the front wheels of a front wheel drive car against the already freewheeling rear wheels.

in the real world NEITHER BRAKES should be creating friction. if they are (and most usually do to some degree) then they are simply out of adjustment.
 

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Disk brakes..don't the rotors "freewheel" and have some small amount of lateral "play"? I think they do, and it's that play that "bumps" the pads away from the rotors every time you let go of the brake and begin driving.

So yes, there's some friction at first whenever you start driving from a stop.

I remember this because whenever we did our own brake jobs at home, we would have to take those "pins" out and run them on a buffer-wheel, to remove the corrosion and enable the calipers to move freely. Not doing the buffing would cause the calipers to not release as willingly, thereby increasing the friction and reducing the live of the new brake pads.

EDIT - I think this is because hydraulic systems can "push" with enormous forces and cannot "pull" very well, if at all.

Backhoes have two hydraulic cylinders, to enable forceful bidirectional movement. Braking systems only have one cylinder in each caliper, for applying a "squeezing" force upon the rotors.

Opposite of our own muscles, which can contract, but cannot stretch without something "pulling" them.
 

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Bif:

very well said. and you are right, the brakes BOTH front and back do drag a little. that is because as you stated, the brakes only push and do not retract.

now another thing to consider is the rear drums have a much greater surface area to potentially drag on. but there is no need to worry in either case.

after the wheel starts to spin, it will push the pads out and reduce drag to nil. you must realize that friction of a static object is much greater than the friction of a moving object. the drag created by either type of brakes will not have any discernible effect on your mpgs.
 

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My Prius has disc brakes all round. Rear and front. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it costs a little more here. They do like to cheapen things for the american market. It seems in the usa, everything is about how cheap something can be, which is why - according to the author Bill Bryson - the chocolate in the USA is so lacking in taste compared to the rest of the world.
 

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neither disc pad or drum pads should touch disc/wheel unless brake pedal is pushed. if they do then they need adjusting
 

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Roger said:
zinzindorff9 said:
It does not tell you at all times even if the "ICE" is running.
Mine does....
No it doesn't. There are plenty of time you'll be coasting/gliding at over 41mph and the ICE is running but nothing will show on the display. The only way to tell would be a tach or some other engine run indicator.

Although there are lots of cheaply made things in the US I think your opinion is very wrong the way you generalize it. Although we certainly do not make the best chocolate in the world we certainly know where and how to get it and it sells quite well here. We have quite a few products made in the US that are superior to anything obtainable anywhere else in the world...even your beloved Australia.
 

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i think we are not looking at the quality situation the right way.

its not that america is bad, (although we are getting better) it is that japan is getting to be that much better than anybodyelse. The Deming approach to quality is a model the japanese have been adhering to for 40 years and its now reaping the rewards.

although Deming was an american (yes, although we didnt practice quality, we still know how to do it) he was ridiculed for his opinions of doom for industry especially since he was spouting his opinions just after the greatest manufacturing feat in the history of man from the buildup up american manufacturing during WWII.

lets face it, in the aftermath of victory the US was ten feet tall and bulletproof. it took 30 years to put the US in its place. the US sat on it laurels while the japanese continued to improve. the difference is that the japanese still work just as hard to improve on their proven quality products now as they did when they produced junk.
 

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DaveinOlyWA said:
i think we are not looking at the quality situation the right way.

its not that america is bad, (although we are getting better) it is that japan is getting to be that much better than anybodyelse.

Riiiiiiiiight... remember the Japanese home computer invasion of the 80s? Neither do I.

Remember all the japanese designed CPUs that overtook Intel and AMD? Neither do I.

Come on... some perspective is necessary here.
 

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Alot of owners are confused with the info displayed on the "MFD" It really is just a toy. It is not precise with the info and does not display it all. Check out a Gentleman named Grahmn who has posted here to find out the correct info on how everything works very simply in "lazy-mans" terms. Once understood you will realize just how far you could drive with the "ICE" disabled. and a lot of folks would stop attempting to see just how far they can go on a tank of gas. The Japanese have a different mentality on just what an American buyer wants. I believe they have so far just been dealing in a market of previous owned Japanese car buyers who have little interest in any form of instrumentation. Hence the total lack of Temp guages for the two critically important cooling systems, The simple addition of an engine run light. A simple tach would be a lor more interest to me than the "energy" graphs. I think as more of these cars reach the public we will see a very active after market in just this type of instrumentation. Now all you can purchase are "mud guards, bike racks, a button to eliminate the " ICE" mode and maybe a kit to allow you to watch TV on the MFD. It's a great little car with superior engineering far in advance of anything done in the U.S. but that mainly has been account of the market. Now that the industry is swinging Hybrid, look out Toyota!
 

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efusco said:
Roger said:
zinzindorff9 said:
It does not tell you at all times even if the "ICE" is running.
Mine does....
No it doesn't.
I didn't say it shows whether the ICE is running or not all of the time, in saying "mine does" i was in effect stating that it does show it running, because I took zinzindorff9's comment to state that it doesn't show the ICE running ever. (the way he worded it)

Although there are lots of cheaply made things in the US I think your opinion is very wrong the way you generalize it. Although we certainly do not make the best chocolate in the world we certainly know where and how to get it and it sells quite well here. We have quite a few products made in the US that are superior to anything obtainable anywhere else in the world...even your beloved Australia.
Even tho you ignored the point about the US prius lacking rear disc brakes to make them cheaper for the US market, I'll indulge your line of conversation and I would ask you to name one thing that is better quality in the usa than what we can get here... just for the fun of it.. :)

Because "We have quite a few products made in the US that are superior to anything obtainable anywhere else in the world" is a pretty bold statement.
 

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i would have to agree. the only thing i can think of that the US makes better is CPU's...

oh wait!! they havent been made here in years in any real quantity.
 

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Roger said:
efusco said:
Roger said:
zinzindorff9 said:
It does not tell you at all times even if the "ICE" is running.
Mine does....
No it doesn't.
I didn't say it shows whether the ICE is running or not all of the time, in saying "mine does" i was in effect stating that it does show it running, because I took zinzindorff9's comment to state that it doesn't show the ICE running ever. (the way he worded it)
Hmmm, if you say so, the 'way he worded it is quite clear to me "It does not tell you at all times even if the ice is running." But I give you the benefit of the doubt.

Although there are lots of cheaply made things in the US I think your opinion is very wrong the way you generalize it. Although we certainly do not make the best chocolate in the world we certainly know where and how to get it and it sells quite well here. We have quite a few products made in the US that are superior to anything obtainable anywhere else in the world...even your beloved Australia.
Even tho you ignored the point about the US prius lacking rear disc brakes to make them cheaper for the US market, I'll indulge your line of conversation and I would ask you to name one thing that is better quality in the usa than what we can get here... just for the fun of it.. :)

Because "We have quite a few products made in the US that are superior to anything obtainable anywhere else in the world" is a pretty bold statement.
I didn't ignore it, I agree with it...I just disagree with the passage that follows.
Girls...'nuf said! ;-)
 

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OK Roger, and this is just one opinion and I like my Prius for what it is. But put it alongside my Buick LeSabre and it is not even close. Of course it's a different vehicle so I'll throw in the Full Bore Camry. I checked them all out and in my humble opinion the Buick is a much better car. I bought it $2500. under list just as was the offer from Toyota for the Camry $2500 under list.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I'm not the moderator here and I don't really know what a moderator does, but we seemed to have strayed from the topic :oops:

I originally started this discussion to see if anyone had any information why this technologically advanced vehicle would have rear drums.

So far we have found out that rear discs are standard elsewhere but not in the NA market. We have found out that Australian vehicles are higher priced. We have speculated that discs are more expensive. We have been told that the front discs produce all the regen and the rear drums produce 0%. We don't seem to have arrived at a consensus on whether or not brakes drag all the time. I don't think so! We have discussed whether the American economy can produce anything of value. (I missed the posting about how the Australians are world leaders in ... :wink: )

Surely amongst all the erudition that surfaces regularly in this forum there is one engineer/technician/??? that has some solid information for this seeming anomaly and not just speculation.

Has anyone looked underneath the car to see if it has a solid transaxle and leaf springs? Maybe there's a crank under the spare tire in case the engine doesn't start. Rear drums???
 

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So, in other words, you want everyone to be quiet unless they can directly answer your question?

ok, fair enough. please excuse me. - And Australia is NOT a world leader in producing quality, although we are up there, in as much as we don't produce poor quality items. But that wasn't the point. The point was that as a society, we demand high quality, not willing to settle for less, just because it costs less. The example being the rear disc brakes. people would rather pay extra here and have a quality product, than skimp.
 

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And the reason why your car has rear drums was answered. Because it's cheap. That's the only reason. The American market is very competitive and so to compete, things have to be as cheap as possible, and to make them cheap, quality is sacrificed. (rear disc brakes are sacrificed... as well as an EV switch and other items)
 
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