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Let's make a pact now... Repeat after me: "I do solemnly swear that I will not resurrect here the thread of GM and other US auto makers being anti-hybrid."

Now, prick finger with pin and sign screen in blood.

There. Whew - that was close! :shock:
 

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Must be a West Coast ad. The Saturn ads here in Ill. do not name call. Midwestern courtesy, I guess.
 

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Hopefully we will hear more detail on the problem from Toyota. It would not be surprising if many did not go in for the software upgrade that was announced for the 2004s (which I remember doing), and this is now causing the problem.

We'll see.
 

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hyperion said:
This is the very first time I have ever heard mention about a "anti hybrid" type of populace.
Whoa!

I've been fighting them for years!

Read the logs on my website. They document those numerous battles in great detail.

Anti-Hybrid people have pulled every trick in the book attempting to prevent the success of Prius from becoming too obvious. With the advice of Prius supporters, I've been able to counter them every step of the way. And as frustrating as their attacks have been, I've learned a ton along the way figuring out how to expose their exploits. Needless to say, they are struggling to convince people that hybrids aren't the next sensible step in automotive advancement.

It's rewarding to hear that some people are unaware of that aspect of Prius penetration into the mainstream. The goal has always been to prevent the anti-hybrid efforts from interfering with hybrid interest. Apparently, that's been working pretty well.
 

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"aspect of Prius penetration"

Stop it, John, this is a family bulletin board and innuendo like that will not be tolerated!
;-)
 

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Hell I am 65 years old and have been driving since i was 16 and in my life i have had several regular cars quit on me at hiway speeds. whats all the excitement about. Just because the anti-hybred people are jelious of what we prius owners have and they wont admit that somebody has finally done a good thing for people who drive and enjoy having the latest tech. i had a classic 2002 and now have a new 2005 prius and i often think where in the hell was this car when i had a 25 mile one way commute every day to work i could have saved a lot on gas and reduced my need also. so all you anti hybred people just stuff it and let us enjoy our car.
 

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John 1701. I would say that you are the one with the agenda. The folks I know are too well educated to put out any of that ignorant info. I know of no one who has ever critisized Japanese automobiles or technology. The cars are just too small and "tinny" for them and up to the Prius for me. I went for the hybrid at the only place it was available but I see a lot about Japanese construction weaknesses and quality in my car and I see absolutely nothing wrong at all about looking forward to something better
Sorry to "read you" as you seem to have made yourself into the resident authority.
I would love to see an automotive ad critisizing a hybrid. Some on the west coast might have pointed out the weakness of a first generation car but not because it was hybrid. I don't really believe the "big three" or any other manufacturer in the world paid any attention to the hybrid at all until the 2004 sedan hit the streets and even then not until the media got into the action with the sharp increases in gas prices. The numbers were just to negligible. I'll bet every Prius owner reading on this site that still owns an SUV, pick-up truck, or mini van bought it for a reason which is still viable. It probably sits a lot more often now but there is still a use for it.
And I'm throwing in All foreign vans and pick-up's not just GM.
Live and let live and let competition decide the business.
And please, no more stuff about Toyota's profits compared to the big three's. Thats all sour grapes and should be well beneath you.
Get a life! Sorry Sanny!
And quietman, Have you ever met anyone who told you he was anti-hybrid? I guess you forgot the joy it was to drive a car that at least had some guages in it for folks who loved to drive. I wonder where the term "idiot lights" came from.
I just checked out the first Escape the local Ford dealer got in with some Japanese technology thrown in. I was surprised. The power is a 2.3 liter four cylinder engine with an atkinson cycle, one electric motor, and regenerative braking, and four wheel independent suspension. Comes complete with the works including electric seats for $28,000. Paper says 35 mpg city and salesman says 0/60 times around 10 seconds. It has a full set of instruments including all guages, a speedometer and Tach plus an MFD for the hybrid unit similar to the Prius.
 

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Where I live, the Prius is just another hatchback. There is no animosity toward the vehicle at all, but there is also no vehement (or political) support of it either. Intelligent and value driven folks are buying it. They come from all colors and political backgrounds. Enough said. For those of us that own them, they are a very sensible and inexpensive vehicle to drive. I did not buy one for political, or environmental reasons, I purchased because I liked the value it offered me compared to other vehicles out there that were in my price range.

I'm perfectly happy that other manufacturers get into the act. I'm excited for Ford's foray into hybrid technology as I will someday return to them because I enjoy their products and find Ford quality world-class.
 

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> The newspaper reports the National Highway Transportation Safety
> Administration has logged 13 reports of the engine shutdowns


I searched the NHTSA reports myself. I actually found 14 reports; however, 3 of them were duplicate entries. So there were really only 11 vehicles reporting that "VEHICLE LOST POWER" problem.

Reading through the details available, you wonder if SSC-40A (Electronic-Control-Unit Reprogramming) and LSC-40E (Engine Compartment Seal) had been done. They are required updates that some owners may not have been aware of... unfortunately. In other words, a preventative fix was possibly already available for some (or all) of them.

The following are summaries of all the NHTSA reports and links so you can read through the details yourself:

  • fuel gauge (November 29, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • highway stability (April 1, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • crosswinds & tires (March 19, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 19, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • brake problem (April 12, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • back seatbelt (December 30, 2003)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • navigation accuracy (December 10, 2003)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • cruise-control (December 15, 2003)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • brake problem (May 2, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • tire traction (May 9, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (June 16, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (July 18, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • tire wear (September 23, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • brake light assembly (August 10, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • back seatbelt (October 15, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (October 29, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • * duplicate entry, same vehicle (October 29, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • * duplicate entry, same vehicle (October 29, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • brake fluid (November 23, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • tire blowout (November 22, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • accelerator stuck (October 12, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • air bags (December 28, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • * duplicate entry, same vehicle (December 28, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • fuel guage (January 1, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • backseat latch (February 4, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (February 24, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (November 1, 2004)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (March 30, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • * duplicate entry, same vehicle (March 30, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 17, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 20, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (May 2, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]
  • VEHICLE LOST POWER (May 7, 2005)[/*:m:11qs852a]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DrillDown&type=1&year=2004&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true


http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=16&SearchType=DrillDown&type=1&year=2004&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true


http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DrillDown&type=1&year=2005&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true
 

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hyperion said:
. . . I just checked out the first Escape the local Ford dealer got in with some Japanese technology thrown in. I was surprised. The power is a 2.3 liter four cylinder engine with an atkinson cycle, one electric motor, and regenerative braking, and four wheel independent suspension. . .
Hi hyperion,
Can you point me to a description of how the Hybrid Escape's eCVT works. If there's only one electric motor in the Hybrid Escape, then it can't be the same as the Prius (requires 2 motors). Ford's website doesn't provide any information about how the eCVT works and google didn't help me either :(
 

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Fords salesmen knew almost nothing and a service manager about the same. The mech trained was off. (this is an old but small dealership) He did know that the cvt was one speed, no shifting but the gear selector on the console beside P, N. R and D had one more option labeled L. That might be similar to the "B" on the Prius. A lot of their present tech was gleaned from Toyota.
Still on the expensive side for an SUV "look alike" but then again almost ten thousand less than the Highlander. These are serious bucks but may be the normal cost of owning hybrids in our futures.
 

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drash,
Thanks for the links. Sounds like the basic mechanism is like the Toyota design. What they call the "generator motor" sounds very much like MG1 in the Toyota HSD. Their "traction motor" would play the role of MG2. But the Toyota HSD combines both motors and the planetary gear into one housing. It sounds like Ford separated out the "traction motor", so only the "generator motor" and planetary gear (sets?) are combined into an integrated physical unit. So maybe Ford is going for easier maintenance and the possibility of a second planetary gear set (for low range 4 wheeling?) at the cost of more space to accomodate everything.

The Freestyle CVT is definitely not the eCVT of the Hybrid Escape since it uses cones and pulleys.

Well anyway, it sounds like I can continue to mentally categorize the HSD and the eCVT as "topologically" equivalent. But it would be interesting to know what the differences really are and where they're likely to diverge in the future.

I guess all the manufacturers plan to keep their designs as undisclosed as possible :( I wonder if a Japanese government sponsored laboratory will disect a Hybrid Escape for us the way the US sponsored Argonnes lab did the Prius.
 
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