[clett]

AutoExpress over here in the UK have a very interesting article in the latest (print) issue. Can't see it online yet, but they've got a big picture of a reworked Prius (looks a bit like a Corrolla Verso from the front) and some news from Toyota as to what the next generation Prius will offer.

Here are the headline stats:

1) Finally made the leap to lithium-ion (at last!)

2) As a result, performance set to be much better (0-60 times at least 1 second lower from current).

3) No more gasoline-engine on during city driving (except once charge depleted).

4) Expected 94 miles-per gallon (US).

Given earlier leaks, this is almost certainly Toyota's first plug-in hybrid offering (9 miles AER was mentioned).

Article says Toyota are desperate to get it out before Subaru and Mitsubishi bring out their own lithium EVs (set to be 2010), so are aiming to release this new super-Prius by 2008! 8)

 

[janets98]

I do NOT want a car which is tethered to an electrical outlet.

 

[efusco]

I do NOT want a car which is tethered to an electrical outlet.

Ok, then don't plug it in---you won't be 'tethered' to it, but if you maximum FE and maximum electric only range you can use it.

 

[wayneswhirld]

I think in 3 years, most people will think a supplemental plug-in is a Godsend.

 

[MtnTraveler]

Depends on how expensive your electricity is. Is it less expensive than gasoline? Possibly... anyone have the numbers?

Is it more environmental? The extra electricity you'll need is probably not generated by hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, or other renewable resource, or nuclear. Probably it's oil, coal, or natural gas. Possibly those power plants are more efficient than the Prius engine, even including transmission losses.

I wish these factors were included when people tout plugging in their cars to "save gas". Ya don't get something for nuttin'.

 

[janets98]

If we hit Iran with a nuclearn weapon, like the Bush administration is considering, 94 MPG won't save us. It won't even help.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060408/ts_ ... NlYwNmYw--

 

[milesahead]

I guarantee that if electricity usage increases noticeably due to people converting over to plug in cars the price of electricity will rise accordingly. Supply and demand, with a small dose of profiteering added in for good measure.

I do want one though.

 

[ehurtley]

Depends on how expensive your electricity is. Is it less expensive than gasoline? Possibly... anyone have the numbers?

Is it more environmental? The extra electricity you'll need is probably not generated by hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, or other renewable resource, or nuclear. Probably it's oil, coal, or natural gas. Possibly those power plants are more efficient than the Prius engine, even including transmission losses.

I wish these factors were included when people tout plugging in their cars to "save gas". Ya don't get something for nuttin'.

Well, I pay an extra 10% on my electric bill to have all of my power come from 'green' sources: wind, solar, geothermal, and 'fish friendly' hydroelectric.

When we have the funds, my wife and I are going to put solar panels up. During the summer, we should get credits on our bill; but pretty sure that overall, we'll still end up paying through the year. (Unless we switch our electric dryer for natural gas; but then we'l be burning more fossil fuels, instead of supporting clean electric.)

I dunno, though, this whole OP topic sounds like a late April Fools joke to me.

 

[JDavies]

Janets98 wrote: "If we hit Iran with a nuclearn (sic) weapon, like the Bush administration is considering.."
******************
The article you quote says nothing about using nuclear weapons..

 

[janets98]

That's right. He didn't. And neither did I. I said considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise.

 

[JDavies]

"Isaid considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise."
*************************
You obviously have high level inside contacts. Should we start building the bunkers..?

 

[MtnTraveler]

Well, I pay an extra 10% on my electric bill to have all of my power come from 'green' sources: wind, solar, geothermal, and 'fish friendly' hydroelectric.

Are you serious about this? If so, how does it work?

When we have the funds, my wife and I are going to put solar panels up.

I worked for a time in the solar energy industry in Portland for BPA. Be curious how well you will make this work.

 

[fish_antlers]

Well, I pay an extra 10% on my electric bill to have all of my power come from 'green' sources: wind, solar, geothermal, and 'fish friendly' hydroelectric.

Are you serious about this? If so, how does it work?

? water passes through turbines... makes electricity ...

all power here is hyrdo electric. I'd gladly have a vehicle that plugged in...

Just make one that can tow and I'll be on board... oh.. and stop over pricing them or I'll just buy another 300C Hemi.

 

[janets98]

"I said considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise."
*************************
You obviously have high level inside contacts. Should we start building the bunkers..?

No contacts. I just read the article. As far as building bunkers is concerned, for now I'd just contact my Congressman and Senators and register my disgust with the "consideration". Bunkers may be helpful in the future, though. After all, we've got 3 more years of Bush.

 

[mrv]

Is it more environmental? The extra electricity you'll need is probably not generated by hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, or other renewable resource, or nuclear. Probably it's oil, coal, or natural gas. Possibly those power plants are more efficient than the Prius engine, even including transmission losses.

I wish these factors were included when people tout plugging in their cars to "save gas". Ya don't get something for nuttin'.

Ah, found my source again:

Battery-Powered Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicle Projects to Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions: A Resource Guide for Project Development, National Energy Technology Laboratory (NETL):
http://www.netl.doe.gov/products/ccps/pubs/resguide.pdf
or
http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/ ... ctions.pdf

Look at table 4.2 on page 38 for a comparison of greenhouse gas emissions of:
commercial 17MPG SUV
commercial 26MPG average vehicle
commercial 38MPG high-efficiency vehicle
commercial 55MPG HEV (Classic Prius)
EV - Coal
EV - Natural Gas Single Cycle
EV - Natural Gas Combined Cycle
EV - Hydro/Renewable

The 38MPG vehicle and the 55MPG HEV produces less CO2 than the EV on coal. The 55MPG HEV also produces less CO2 than an EV on Natural Gas Single Cycle. Otherwise, the EV will win.

Sadly, about 50% of the US electricity generation is from coal.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricit ... m_sum.html

 

[83989]

"I said considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise."
*************************
You obviously have high level inside contacts. Should we start building the bunkers..?

No contacts. I just read the article. As far as building bunkers is concerned, for now I'd just contact my Congressman and Senators and register my disgust with the "consideration". Bunkers may be helpful in the future, though. After all, we've got 3 more years of Bush.

Moderators - this is definitely off-topic to the subject of the thread. Do we really need this BS here?

 

[ryecatcher]

I want one!

Here is the full text of the article:


Prius hits 113mpg


Toyota is charging ahead in the race for domination of the hybrid car market, according to Auto Express spies.

The firm's next Prius will be so efficient it will be the first production car capable of returning more than 110mpg. The newcomer is being developed to try to improve European sales. While the car has been a success in the US, it has met a mixed reaction on this side of the Atlantic, due to the popularity of diesel models.

But now we've been told that engineers working on the new Prius have a fuel economy target of 40km/litre - a mind-boggling 113mpg.

"The whole electrical system has been redesigned to improve economy" said one Toyota engineer. "We are working on a prototype that runs solely on the electric motor in slow traffic, but switches to engine and motor drive when higher speeds are needed." The secret lies with the batteries. The current Prius uses nickel-hydride items, which currently offer the best balance between cost and performance.

But engineers are working on new lithiumion cells, which are lighter, smaller, generate more power and last longer. Subaru and Mitsubishi both plan to sell electric cars by 2010, but Toyota hopes to get its new model on the road as early as 2008.

And improved economy isn't the firm's only goal, as engineers are working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62mph time by more than a second.

:lol:

 

[Canadian Prius]

"I said considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise."
*************************
You obviously have high level inside contacts. Should we start building the bunkers..?

No contacts....

Moderators - this is definitely off-topic to the subject of the thread. Do we really need this BS here?

Why do you want to limit serious discussion about a really serious issue? Most people here are interested not only in the nuts and bolts of the Prius, but also its place on the world stage in terms of energy use, environmental effects, and all the political ramifications those subjects imply. The Prius makes an admirable statement on these issues - that statement is an essential part of its design.

Iraq and Iran are the world's second and third largest oil producers. It is not only coincidence that the USA has unilaterally attacked one and is threatening to unilaterally attack the other. If this was not the state of the world, who do you think would really care about the Prius? If you don't like facing the abhorrent considerations of your government, such as attacking a non-nuclear state with nuclear weapons, in case that state might become as belligerent as itself, then you should simply bypass the posts that are not of interest to you.

 

[83989]

"I said considering. But even a "consideration" is scary - and not only to me. There are senior pentagon officials who are considering resigning because of this. That tells me that this is not just an abstract exercise."
*************************
You obviously have high level inside contacts. Should we start building the bunkers..?

No contacts....

Moderators - this is definitely off-topic to the subject of the thread. Do we really need this BS here?

Why do you want to limit serious discussion about a really serious issue? Most people here are interested not only in the nuts and bolts of the Prius, but also its place on the world stage in terms of energy use, environmental effects, and all the political ramifications those subjects imply. The Prius makes an admirable statement on these issues - that statement is an essential part of its design.

Iraq and Iran are the world's second and third largest oil producers. It is not only coincidence that the USA has unilaterally attacked one and is threatening to unilaterally attack the other. If this was not the state of the world, who do you think would really care about the Prius? If you don't like facing the abhorrent considerations of your government, such as attacking a non-nuclear state with nuclear weapons, in case that state might become as belligerent as itself, then you should simply bypass the posts that are not of interest to you.

This forum area and the thread is technically-oriented, or at least focused on the Prius. Injecting politics undercuts the technology discussions and creates arguments that impact the technical discussion. In most forums, there is a separate area specifically for political discussions. Whether that should be in an off-topic area here is for the moderators to decide.

I will not comment on your anti-US policy opinions, but suggest that they do not enhance the Prius specific forum.

 

[salsawonder]

I would so purchase this 08 Prius if it stays a hatchback and does all that is promised here. As it is my daughter fully plans to buy (steal) my current Prius when they return from Italy in 2 1/2 years.

As far as the sidebar about Iran, Bush is even making most Republicans damn nervous. I did not vote for him. I hate to see what he has done to our country and the loss of respect the US has suffered under his reign.