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efusco said:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=2004prius_prelim_s

Note that they consider it a mid-size vehicle instead of a compact. These specs still don't show gas milage, but the horse power ratings are there as are the vehicle dimensions.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#sizeclasses

"The size class for cars is determined by measuring the interior volume ....
Compact Between 100 and 109 cubic feet of passenger and luggage volume
Mid-Size Between 110 and 119 cubic feet of passenger and luggage volume"

According to the document you listed,
the current generation Prius has a
total interior volume of 100.4 cu. in.,
while the new 2004 Prius has a total
interior volume of 110 cu. in.
 

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I am finding something a little funny they say the ice nakes 78 hp and the elec. makes 67 and together they make 106 when the old prius made 114 together I think it may be a goof 78+67=145 thats about what a 4cyl camry makes (130hp) I wonder how much the drive train loses and 295 ft lbs of tq. from start wow thats a lot a base chevy V8 makes 285 hp and 300 ftlbs of tq. @ about 4000 rpms .
 

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The current Prius torque spec is 340 lb.-ft.---258 from the electric motor and 82 from the ICE.

The only vehicle that ever beat my 2002 off the line at a stoplight was a motorcycle....
 

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DGC said:
I am finding something a little funny they say the ice nakes 78 hp and the elec. makes 67 and together they make 106 when the old prius made 114 together I think it may be a goof 78+67=145 thats about what a 4cyl camry makes (130hp)
RSnyder explained this in the "Is 100 mph the maximum" thread on the Technical board. Here's what he said (about the 2002 model). You'll note that the new figure of 106hp is the 78hp from the ICE plus 28hp from the battery, suggesting that the new battery doesn't actually provide more power even though it runs the motor at a higher voltage.

RSnyder said:
The gasoline engine tops out at 70 HP (but you have to be going over 60 MPH to get there). That one's easy for the ad guys to get right, their used to it. The larger electric motor can convert up to 33 kW (44 HP) of electric power to mechanical power (you have to be going over 18 MPH to get this much power conversion). But it doesn't create this power out of thin air, it receives the electric power from both the battery and from the gasoline engine (via the smaller electric motor/generator). Since it receives some of the power from the gasoline engine, this power does not go directly to the wheels, so you must be careful not to add the peak output of the gasoline engine and the electric motor to get total peak output. The battery can contribute at most 21 kW (28 HP) of electric power, so when the larger electric motor is converting 44 HP, at least 44-28 or 16 HP must come from the gasoline engine. The easiest way to get the real peak HP is to add the peak contributions from the gasoline engine and the battery so you get 70 + 28 or 98 HP. The electric motor peak doesn't enter in because its contribution is really coming from the other two. The ad guys really don't get this point.

In the U.S., electric power is usually measured in kW while mechanical power is usually measured in HP. But the two units really are measures of the same physical concept. You can easily convert by multiplying HP by .746 to get kW (or dividing kW by .746 to get HP).
 

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RSnyder wrote: "...the battery can contribute at most 21 kW (28 HP) of electric power...."

What is the authority for this assertion in re: the 21 kW maximum battery output?
 

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The interior volume total does not add up in the 2004 preliminary spec
- passenger 99 + cargo 16 should be 115, not 110
as stated in the spec. (It does add up to 100.4 for the 2003 model).
What am I missing?

Another thing about the 2004 model, although I looked quite hard for
it as the turntable rotated, I could'nt spot the battery vent where it is
in the 2003 model or any other place.

Overall, given its looks and specs, I cannot believe this car would sell
for less than $30K.

- chris
2003 silver, 2k miles, 47.5mpg
 

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Chris,
According to everything I've seen and heard the 2004 will be priced at or very near the 2003 price. Seems amazing to me too, but that won't make me feel guilty once it's in my driveway!
--evan
 

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Re: total available horsepower

Henry said:
RSnyder wrote: "...the battery can contribute at most 21 kW (28 HP) of electric power...."

What is the authority for this assertion in re: the 21 kW maximum battery output?
Toyota states, on their website, that the current model of the Prius has a total of 98 horsepower available. Since we know that the ICE can produce 70 hp that would imply that there is only 28 hp available from the electric motor.
I don't know if Toyota officially states that the electric motor is limited to 28 hp, when running off of the battery pack, but some owners have measured the current being drawn and it tops out at about 80 amps which is about 28 hp.
 

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Totyota also states that the electric motor outputs 33kW/44hp (see, for example, the booklet "2002 Prius"). So couldn't we just as logically state that the ICE output is 54 hp? (54 + 44 = 98). Again, how do we "know" that ICE=70hp is any more valid than electric=28hp or 44hp? Guess it depends on what you accept as the given.

I understand the distinction between total horsepower and available horsepower. I just wish that folks would use these numbers with a bit more precision and specificity.
 

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Henry said:
RSnyder wrote: "...the battery can contribute at most 21 kW (28 HP) of electric power...."

What is the authority for this assertion in re: the 21 kW maximum battery output?
The source of the 21 kW maximum battery output figure was originally from Dave Hermance, aka ee_of_ee, an environmental engineer for Toyota who at the time was providing engineering information about the Prius to the original Yahoo group. This value was fairly closesly verified by Graham Davies who measured peak amperage at close to 80 amps, but only during the 1 minute engine warmup period. 80 amps * 280 volts is about 22 kW. (I might not be remembering his figures correctly, perhaps he'll step in).
 

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why all the guess work?

so many posts talk about what hp the ice + electric make. these numbers at peak never meant anything to me. curious if any one has ever put the Prius on a Dyno. with a hp and torque print out, there's no argument of how much total power is at the drive wheels.

it would answer a lot of question, for me at least.

Alex.
 

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chris said:
Another thing about the 2004 model, although I looked quite
hard for it as the turntable rotated, I could'nt spot the battery
vent where it is
The pack is still behind the rear seat but Toyota reduced the module count and managed to drop it completely below the "deck". Coolong intake and exhaust are now hidden from casual view.

chris said:
Overall, given its looks and specs, I cannot believe this car
would sell for less than $30K.
To quote Don Esmond, Senior Vice President & General Manager, Toyota Motor Division:
"It will provide...
* the quiet, comfort and convenience...and responsive performance...of a midsize sedan...
* with standard features and options unavailable on any car sold in America...
* with Toyota-brand quality...reliability...and durability...
* and a best-in-industry emissions rating...
* at a price we anticipate won't change much from the current generation model. "
 

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peak vs actual horsepower

hello everyone... new to the board... hope to be first in line with a '04 purchase...

anyway, point of my post... when adding the sum of two horsepower producing power plants, you must add the available horsepower at a given RPM... anyone who has seen a HP curve will realize this, but to get the "maximum" you must add these two curves... so it is ABSOLUTELY possible to have a max ICE HP of say 100 and a max electric motor output of 50 HP and have a true maximum of 110HP

just my two bits....
 
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