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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
FYI, a Japanese fellow, his handle is "White EPV2", achieved 1,000 miles/tank recently.

http://mav.nifty.com/ahp/textview.cgi?otooru+21750+7144

The picture is not clear, but you can read 1,610km(1,000mile) and 31.7km/L(74.6MPG).
The calculate number is 1,610.5km/49.52L=32.52km/L(76.50MPG).
Please note that Prius in Japan has no bladder and can have 50L(13.2G) or more.
The temperature was about 0 to 10 degree C (32 to 50 degree F) in his area.
Also, note that the car wears 205/65R15 winter tires which is 4% larger than normal. This translates his achievement was even 1,675 km/tank equivalently.
We found that we can get better mileage to supply warm intake air to ICE on cold weather. Therefore, he covered front grill to maintain the engine room warm.

Anyway, following is his Ten Mileage Tips derived from his profile page.
http://www.priuslife.com/profile/profil ... 2%82%CCEPV

1. Try to run a half by ICE and the other half by stealth.
2. Try to cruise by slight use of battery power.
3. It is better to use ICE than battery when you accelerate.
4. Try to maintain accelerator so that no arrow is displayed from battery when you accelerate.
5. But, it is not a good idea too slow acceleration.(in city driving)
6. Maintain your speed limit. 70km/h(44MPH) in city/country, 100km/h(63MPH) on highway.
(Note: EV-mode limit is 70km/h(44MPH))
7. Maintain as little as breaking (forecasting driving)
8. Maintain as little as regenerating at down slope, try to glide.(especially pushing little accelerator on highway)
9. Use ICE to accelerate.(especially from EV-mode)
10. Inflate your tires. Maintain properly.

Enjoy Prius Driving!
Ken
 

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ken1784 said:
Hello all,
FYI, a Japanese fellow, his handle is "White EPV2", achieved 1,000 miles/tank recently.
Ken,

I had the Site translated and the most the Japanese fellow got on one tank full of gas was 300 miles, not 1,000 as you mentioned in your message. The km you read is his tripometer - not odometer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Behmon said:
Ken,

I had the Site translated and the most the Japanese fellow got on one tank full of gas was 300 miles, not 1,000 as you mentioned in your message. The km you read is his tripometer - not odometer.
Hi Behmon ,
Thank you for your interest.

Which URL are you referring to?

His lifetime mileage is shown at...
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/ ... %CCEPV%82Q
as 30.04km/L which is 70.67MPG.

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Addition Tips

Hello all, again,

Do you think the 75MPG by Prius is a fake?
No, it is not.

Following is additional Tips by our fellows:

- Keep your engine HOT!!
(March 07: US model has Thermos, therefore more than two hours parking is fine.)
...If you have several places to visit, please plan your driving strategy to do continuous driving as much as possible.
...Do not take one hour lunch, use Drive Through junk food.
...Do not join more than one hour meetings at customer site. Please try to maintain meeting time to less than 30 minutes.

- Do not use highway, use country road.
...You never exceed 55MPG at highway.
...You will get better mileage at the country road and drive less than 44MPH where can do pure stealth (ICE is not running).

- Supply warm air to air intake if you are mileage freak.
...Cover your grill.
...Modify the air intake port like...
http://park2.wakwak.com/~mapokln85/Priu ... /futa.html

Now, you can expect more than 70MPG.
Any comments?
 

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Behmon,

I don't know how you did the math, but the website
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/ ... %CCEPV%82Q
shows lifetime mileage calculated over three tanks, and the last one covered 1620.5 km, which is 1000.7 mi. This is the equivalent of 13.3 gal of gas at (75 mpg), which is consistent.

By the way, this site also indicates this person is driving an NHW20, which is the '04 model, I believe. So a lifetime mileage of 70.7 mpg is only 18% above the US EPA rating of 60 mpg (city) for the '04. I think this is within the realm of possibility, given the driving style suggested by the tips on this site (and the others mentioned above).

Also, it is possible that there are differences between the Japanese and US NHW20 cars. We know the other US models have included some unique differences (e.g. gas tank bladders) designed specifically to reduce emissions, sometime at the cost of fuel economy. If the US NHW20 has some similar differences from the Japanese NHW20, it may not be possible for you to achieve such mileages, but that doesn't make them impossible for a Japanese NHW20.

Douglas (2002 Silver, Wisconsin, USA)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hello Douglas,

Thank you for your follow up,

Have you seen our Classiic Prius Freaks's mileage picture on the Album->Best Mileage page?

How about your mileage?

Ken
2004 Silver G Turing Japanese model
31.3km/L(73.6MPG)@320km(200 miles) country trip
 

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If he got 300 mile per tank, I'm thinking - w00pty freakin d00! If I drive to snot outa my Prius I get better than that - usually I get right at 400 miles per tank (or that's as far as I go before adding more fuel anyway).
 

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I think it's super-cool that this guy gets 75 mpg, and it shows what the car is capable of in the extreme case. But I'll be dad-blabbed if I'm gonna eat drive-through junk food just to keep my engine hot so I can get better mileage, and not everyone can, or would want to, limit all stops during the day to 30 minutes. Fargo is a small city, and I like it that way. No place is more than 15 minutes away, or 20 in rush hour, so my average drive is 10 minutes. I'm happy to be getting better than double the mpg of my '89 Civic under similar conditions.

But to the fellow who gets 75 mpg: More power to you! Thanks for showing what this amazing car is capable of.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your comments,
Yes, you're right. We would like to tell people that Prius is very capable vehicle.

I saw people are complaining that their mileage is far below EPA numbers or city mileage is worse than highway which is opposit to EPA data.

I think the myth is caused by ...
- Highway driving is usually longer than city where you can keep ICE hot and steady run. Good 40 to 50 MPG can be seen.
- City driving is relatively short and maybe a lot of stop-start condition which could be more times than EPA test.
- A short trip and many stop-start condition cause worse mileage like less than 40 MPG.

A wise person, like you, understands these and is enjoying double mileage than a normal car.

I believe you are looking forward to spring/summer weather.
Please try to drive country road trip some week-end then enjoy the triple mileage of old Civic at that time.

Thanks and regards,
Ken
 
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Hi Ken and All:

___I was very happy to hear that someone is achieving beyond EPA estimates in an 04 Prius finally

___The warm air intake mods (pre-heater hoses from the Cat shields or engine blocks to the Intake and covering the radiator completely in very cold temperatures) have been used by Insighters for more then 4 years now as well. It works to help achieve higher mileage in winter time temps.

___As for the other suggestions, I cant read Japanese and this threads contents are a bit confusing but high pressure in the Bridgestones /Integritys depending on which Prius you own (the older 01-03 or the new 04) is a great help, 0W-20 Mobil1 at the proper level with its superior lower viscosity at operating temperatures and below is a help, driving at the limit instead of well above is a great help, driving with max momentum on your mind instead of stop and go wherever possible is a great help, and driving with load vs. driving at a given speed is an even greater help. These are the 5 or so keys I have found to improve mileage to extremes in the 03 Acura MDX (32.8 mpg over 177 miles in 68-70 degree F temperatures), the 03 Toyota Corolla LE w/ Auto (45.97 over 543.8 miles in 40 degree F temperatures), and the 00 Honda Insight (97.0 mpg over 95.5 mile segment in 41-43 degree F temperatures just last week). I cannot wait for it to warm up even more too really push these vehicles to their extremes and I hope many of you can find your own Prius best technique for high fuel economy driving. Not only will you travel farther between fuel stops, you will be polluting the environment less simply because you have thrown out outdated driving techniques. Dont forget the reduction in fuel used also helps lower our overall dependence on foreign oil supplies Some of these tips and tricks are learnable but you have to forget all that you know about simply driving down the road at a constant speed and start paying attention to the game gauges as well as your surroundings a bit more is all.

___Good Luck to you all in finding your own high fuel economy driving techniques.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:30p4wja2][email protected][/email:30p4wja2]
 

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1000 per tankful? I'd be happy to see 500!

I personally doubt any Prius can get 1000 miles per tank full, given the configuration available in the USA (without modifications). Keep in mind the best EPA estimate is 60 MPG (an average) which is not consistently achieved each and every mile.

Those who want to believe that the Prius will achieve 1000 miles per tankful are welcome to. I am just happy to get the mileage I do get and will joyfully celebrate if I surpass 500 miles per tank.

- Behmon
 
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Hi Behmon:

___1000 miles/tank with the US/Canadian speced PZEV bladder would probably be impossible but the thread has already shown us that the Japanese based 13.2 gallon tank is not available to those in the US or Canada The 75 mpg however might be? Having driven a few vehicles with game gauges in them to teach me how to drive everything else, EPA estimates are easily beatable in just about anything I have driven. The problem is that the Prius EV mode hides some inefficiencies of the EPA cycle so really exceeding the EPA estimates is a little tougher then in most other vehicles is all At least it appears that way anyway?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:eek:vhyjetn][email protected][/email:eek:vhyjetn]
 

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Hi all

I guess You all think the size of tank is deferent between US and Japan.
But! It is same 11.9 gal.(=45L) tank 2004 Prius for all country.
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/prius/specs.html

Almost say cant refill 45L, only 30L or little more in Japan.

I hear 2 persons success 1000mi/tank with more fuel by 2004 in Japan. ( and one person by 2001 13.2gal.(50L) tank)

They start at full tank which is refilled by very carefully and slowly to full, then they use until nearly empty over empty alarm when happen at about 1.5gal.(=6L). They calculate remaining fuel precisely. So one tank fuel is over specification, it is possible.

EPV is the special man called SHISHOH which mean Great master by our group.
He has a Estima-hybrid (THC system with 2.4L engine) and a 2004 prius (THSII system with 1.5L engine).
There are little deferent system.
He get economical driving technic by Estima.

The most one is no injection running by how press the accelerator .

I drive my Prius, example, repeat one mile by engine then about half by motor.
The 2001 Prius can run 40MPH(65Km/h) by motor, so I like country road.

Do you read my broken?

USK
Bordeaux mica 2001
my records in URL
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/nlist.cgi?hn=USK
___ mi = 0.62137 * Km ____ MPG = 2.3521 * Km/L _____ gal. = 0.26417 * L
 
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Hi USK:

___It isnt the size of the tank; its the bladder that is causing many 04 Prius owners in the US and Canada fits (trouble). Does the Japanese Prius come with a bladder? Is your Prius rated as a PZEV automobile like here in the states (if there is such a rating in Japan)? Some in cold climates cannot even get 9 gallons in their Prius let alone 13.2. The Corolla is rated for just 13.2 but I can get 15.36 in it. The MDX is rated for 19.2 but I can place just a tad under 23 in it. The Insight is rated at 10.6 but the most I can get into it is 10.9. It is the US/Canadian speced Prius that are having the trouble but hopefully that will go away as it warms up for many in the Northern reaches of the US.

___The Masters as I would call them here in the US are two guys that own Honda Insight 5-speeds. One is a moderator over at Insightcentral.net named Rick Reese. The other is a coder who lives 2 towns over from me that goes by the nick Chisight (Brian) in the Yahoo-Honda-Hybrid forums. Both have exceeded 100 mpg over an entire tank while commuting back and forth to work in their Insights. I look up to both of them as great teachers probably the same way you look up to Shishoh.

___I hope you dont mind if I ask a few more questions
  • Are you using Mobil1 0W-20 Synthetic motor oil?
    [/*:m:1abq5eq2]
  • Have you pressed up the tires past 44 #s?
    [/*:m:1abq5eq2]
  • Are the 04 Prius over there equipped with GoodYear Integritys?
    [/*:m:1abq5eq2]
  • Do you have the EV mode only button on your dash?
    [/*:m:1abq5eq2]
  • If you have an EV mode switch, how do you use it to help your fuel economy?
    [/*:m:1abq5eq2]
  • Last but not least, do you have seat height adjusters on your 04 Prius over there?[/*:m:1abq5eq2]
___Thank you for contributing. It is not often that automobile forums here in the US receive input from a fellow such as yourself with English being the non-native language. You did pretty good for your first post and I look forward to many more from both you and Ken1784. Anything to help improve fuel economy of these little wonders called Hybrids will only make the world a better place.

___Good Luck to you and yours.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1abq5eq2][email protected][/email:1abq5eq2]
 

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Hi xcel:

I know US model have thermal bottle system. It is placed outside of fuel tank. But I dont know the bladder. What?

The Japanese fuel economy is very simple. You do know the 10-15 mode in EPA sight.
The 2004 Prius have 4 models in Japan. The following show the 10-15 data.
Model S. 35.5Km/L(=83.5MPG)
Model G. 33.0Km/L(=77.6MPG)
Model ST. & GT. 30.0Km/L(70.6MPG) .... EPV SHISHOH has a GT which is the most expensive model.
My 2001 Purius 29.0Km/L(=68.2MPG)
The 2003 Prius 31.0Km/L(=72.9MPG)
Honda Insight 33.0Km/L(=77.6MPG) (old continuous speed run mode 48Km/L=112.9MPG)
Honda ship the insight only 60 a year in Japan. We Japanese almost think two seater is not worth. How many user in US?

I am an owner of 2001 Prius. not 2004.
So, I response only I can.

__ Are you using Mobil1 0W-20 Synthetic motor oil?
Yes, I use BP 0W-20 with NNL690 every about 10000Km(=6213.7mi), may be about 3 months.
It is not listed Mobil1 0W-20 in Japan.

__ Have you pressed up the tires past 44 #s?
No, I pressed up little, 37.7psi(=260KPa front), 36.2psi(250KPa rear).
The tire is 165/65 R15 B391 which is setting up toyota factory for 2001.

__ Do you have the EV mode only button on your dash?
My Prius has not EV button.
I think that EV button is nonsense. Because I can EV running more reasonable. the 2004 is more easy to do.
I want the thermal bottle system rather than EV Button.

__ If you have an EV mode switch, how do you use it to help your fuel economy?
2004 In Japan, special not normal, they use it to cancel the warm up idling, the button press with in 6 sec. after start. The home on hill top, down hill running is no need engine until flat. Often they use it other case, too.

USK
Bordeaux mica 2001
my records in URL
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/nlist.cgi?hn=USK
___mi = 0.62137 * Km ____ MPG = 2.3521 * Km/L ____ gal = 0.26417 * L
 

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Model S. 35.5Km/L(=83.5MPG)
Model G. 33.0Km/L(=77.6MPG)
Model ST. & GT. 30.0Km/L(70.6MPG) .... EPV SHISHOH has a GT which is most expensive model.
Hi USK,

What are the differences between the S, G, ST and GT models and why don't they get the same fuel economy ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hello Wayne,

xcel said:
Does the Japanese Prius come with a bladder?
No, Japanese Prius does not have a bladder.
Is your Prius rated as a PZEV automobile like here in the states (if there is such a rating in Japan)?
Yes. Our Prius is rated 75% less emission of 2005 standard, Four Stars.

Are you using Mobil1 0W-20 Synthetic motor oil?
Yes. But we are using various brands. I use Toyota genuine 0W-20.

Have you pressed up the tires past 44 #s?
Our Mentor EPV sets 43(front),39(rear) by nitrogen. I have not checked yet.:)
BTW, Mr. EPV is our Shishoh. Master or Mentor, which is better explanation?
Are the 04 Prius over there equipped with GoodYear Integritys?
Ours are...
Model S,G ... 185/65R15 GoodYear GT3
Model S Turing, G Turing ... 195/55R16 Michelin Pilot Primacy

If you have an EV mode switch, how do you use it to help your fuel economy?
- When we are driving uphill and approaching the peak.
- When we are driving long downhill but there are some small uphill here and there, I keep EV-switch ON.
- When I need a little move in garage. It's neat. :)
- When I need to cancel it's Idling Check Mode. (This is one of four stages of ICE warming up process. I'll report this on another post.)

Last but not least, do you have seat height adjusters on your 04 Prius over there?
Yes. It is manual height adjust lever. Hope we'll have electric one.

Believe this helps you some.

Ken
2004 Silver G Turing but 185/65R15 installed
 

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Hi frenchie and all:

What are the differences between the S, G, ST and GT models and why don't they get the same fuel economy ?

The S is the basic, the G is added the VSC system , the cruse control and others, the T is added the options for the touring type , HID lamp, low Down, the sports tire and etc.

The car waight, the S is 1250Kg, the G & ST is 1270Kg, the GT is 1290Kg.
At the 10-15 mode mesurment, there are classified by the waight.
the S is loaded 1250Kg, but other are little over 1250Kg, so there are loaded 1500kg which is one rank up._____1250Kg=2756lb, 1500Kg=3307lb

I think...
The defferrences between S to G is the cause from this defferrent load.
The defferrences between G to ST,GT is from the tire.
The S & G have 185/65 R15 normal eco tires and the ST & GT have 195/55 R16 sports tires.

I'm sorry, I don't know the technical term for the car in English.
And I hope to your kindly allow for my mistakes in English.

USK
Bordeaux mica 2001
my records in URL
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/nlist.cgi?hn=USK
__ mi = 0.62137 * Km ____ MPG = 2.3521 * Km/L ____ gal = 0.26417 * L
 

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Hi usk. I don't think anyone answered your question about the bladder:

The '04 Prius in the US uses a flexible bladder (bag) inside the gas tank. When you fill the tank you are actually filling the bladder, which expands to accept the fuel and collapses as fuel is withdrawn. The purpose is to eliminate the evaporation of gasoline, which, without the bladder, would be an additional source of pollution (gas fumes), unrelated to the engine exhaust.

This reduces the effective capacity of the tank. In very cold weather, the bladder contracts, reducing the capacity even further. Personally, I don't mind this. But it means more frequest stops at the gas station, and people cannot brag about extremely long distances between fill-ups.
 

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Hi Daniel:
Thank you for your explanations.

It is not in the law yet in Japan, it is only mention to eliminate the evaporation of gasoline.

I hope to deverop anyone other method than the bladder.

USK
Bordeaux mica 2001
My every mileage/tank are showed in URL
http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/nlist.cgi?hn=USK
__ mi = 0.62137 * Km ____ MPG = 2.3521 * Km/L ____ gal = 0.26417 * L
 
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