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Discussion Starter #21
clarinet said:
C.Rickey Hirose said:
Hello Clarinet. I dunno for sure but our Toyota-Link says: 06 Spring ?
I do have so many hand raisers already and reservation order as well from me also need a "Larger Sedan" but has to be Toyota Hybrids !
I believe the inside dimension on the new 07 Camry released in early 06 is the same as the 06 Avalons ! Go and check the existing Avalons, they should share the same "Platform" but with shorter _Overhang_ for a better and crisp maneuverability and handling. I'm sold on that .....
Appreciate the info, Ambassidor. Now, if you have insights on when will Hybrid Estima/Sienna lands in US, that will even be better. :)
Will do but you can "Amassed them all" one Toyota Hybrid at the time ! Nothing wrong with having _Multiple+Toyota Hybrids !

Cheers !
 

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clarinet said:
Tideland Prius said:
ehurtley said:
Not a complaint against you, C. Rickey, or even Toyota, but against the car industry in general:

Why the heck is an '07 coming out in January of '06? What are they going to release in late '06, the '08s???

Well, the Camry was scheduled to be released in Sept like it always has been but it has been moved up 6 months, so I don't tihink it's January, but closer to March. The reasoning being, Toyota wants a head-start before the new Altima comes out in Sept.
how realiable is the source/guess? If it's closer to March/April, I might just skip Prius and get HSD Camry. :D I need to carry 5 people w/ some stuff. I hate to stuff all of 'em in the little Prius.
Fairly reliable (or rather, accurate). HOWEVER, since you mentioned the Camry HSD, that won't be released til late 06 or early 07. It's the regular versions that are coming out early next year.
 

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Camry Hybrid

Now if only they would make a Traction Control System that will let the car wheels actually put power to the ground when both are on snow/ice.

Totally worthless in snow unless you have super snow tires.

I've owned 3 Camery's 1986, 1988, 1989. None of them had traction control. Only ran normal radials (Nothing special) Never had the car get stuck.

My 1997 Avalon with trac. cont. will NOT move if on ice/snow unless I disengage the trac. control.

Wife's 2005 Prius will NOT move if on slippery surface. Really limits an otherwise wonderfull car.

Whew!! Now I feel better.
 

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I don't think they'll disable it because of how our HSD system is setup. However, it'll be nice if it was built to withstand more stress so that they can dial back on the sensitivity of the traction control.
 

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prius

Hyperion

I will be going to my local dealer with this.
However I know just what to expect for answer.

Pass the buck, claim ignorance on subject, give some lame excuse that has nothing to do with problem, etc.

Hell, (excuse the French) when I took delivery of my Prius, the sales man didn't even know if or how to change battery in remote key unit. He had to ask a couple of mechanics and service manager. Nobody knew. It was the parts guy who knew the answer.

This sales man was "THE GUY" that went out on most all the demos with any one demo'ing the Prius demo car. He only knew how to start and run the car. Didn't know how to access the storage compartments etc.

My chances are better contacting Toyota directly.
 

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"(The Prius is) Totally worthless in snow unless you have super snow tires."
*********************************************************
Why would Toyota (or anyone else) put a drive system in their cars that renders them useless in what is normal winter weather in 1/2 of the US..Europe..? This must have been factory tested in all kinds of surface conditions..?
 

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The link I provided says 167ps (British rating).
SAE is always less. It should be around 164 hp (SAE).
The V6 should be the same as the one in Avalon. 268hp (SAE), no doubt.
 

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Re: prius

larry31 said:
Hell, (excuse the French) when I took delivery of my Prius, the sales man didn't even know if or how to change battery in remote key unit. He had to ask a couple of mechanics and service manager. Nobody knew. It was the parts guy who knew the answer.
Page 36-37 of the 2004 US Prius Owner's Manual.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Rickey,

Any idea on what the MPG rating will be on the Camry Hybrid. I'm hoping for mid 30's or higher. What would you guess?


I do not know the expected mileage at this point but today, went to the 06
Re-designed Rav4 Cross-over compact sport utility seminar/launch to University of Toyota session and spoke to few Toyota officials privately:
I'm wondering how big is the 07 CH Camry Hybrid's fuel tank is but, listen to this: 650 miles on a full tank for the up coming 07 CH ! The 06 Camry ICE version's tank capacity says : 18.5 gallons so if we assume that 07 CH will deploy the same size of tank. Gasp ! 35 mpg plus ! that will be a welcome benefit for the CH buyers ! Mid-Size, no almost a full size vehicle a-la- Avalon its dimension are shorter but the inner space will beat the next MB or Bimmers or even the Lexus LS sedan ...... So called the, Large premium sedans... Stay tuned !

Good things will come to those whom waits !

Taking reservation orders now at MSRP no more no less !
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I'm borrowing this post from Yahoo-Prius Groups posted by Mr Wayne Brown. I hope he won't mind hyjacking his post and my personal input
for you all to read and share in your views !

Please let me know if his figure for the upcoming 07 Camry Hybrids fuel mileage is close to a real MPG ? I'm vey interested to know !

Hi All,

I am going to stick my neck out a little bit & offer some possible
MPG figures for the new Camry Hybrid with a side by side comparison
with the 04-06 Prius. Please keep in mind that these figures are
based upon the Camry Hybrid's 2.4 liter ICE being of the Atkinson
design. The 192 horsepower Camry Hybrid performance should be very
closely to slightly better than the 04-06 Prius.

The table below is based upon the following variables:

Temperature: 88 ºF
Elevation: 400 ft above sea level
Humidity: 29.93 in Hg
Load: 200 lbs.
AC: YES
Climate Control: 75 ºF
Wind: 0
Fuel: 114,500 BTU per US Gal. (Summer Blend)
Road Rolling Resistance: .001144 (smooth asphalt)
Tire Rolling Resistance: .0064 (Integrity @ 44/42 f/r)
Coefficient of Drag: .26-Prius & .28-Camry
Frontal Area: 2.16m^2-Prius & 2.28m^2-Camry

MPH....04-06PRIUS.....07CAMRY
70........50.94........42.41
65........54.42........44.99
60........58.62........48.10
55........61.79........50.34
50........65.52........52.98
45........68.14........54.73
40........83.80........66.91

The 2007 Camry Hybrid is going to be a beautiful, comfortable &
spacious vehicle. I know the above MPG figures are completely possible, lets hope that this is close to what we get.
Best Regards,

Wayne Brown -
.........................................................................................................
Hello Wayne Brown.

Very optimistic figure but wishful-thinking ! I had the figure
for the
upcoming CH Camry Hybrid at 36~37 MPG ?
My guess base comes from Toyota guys that I spoke to, If same
fuel tank
dimension used for the 07 HH at 18.5 gallons
capacity they were saying cruise-range of 670 plus miles per tank.

Toyota Hybrid Vehicles, To make the World a better place to live
for present and next generations to come.
__________________________________________
HSD, Hybrids for everyone in the near future.
Toyota Hybrids for this planet called, the Green Earth !
__________________________________________
PRIUS are here & The HH, Highlander Hybrid. soon to, arrived !
07 CH or the Camry Hybrid seen on the Horizon ! 06 Mid Spring-
Summer
__________________________________________
The Largest PRIUS & HH Purveyor at Fremont Toyota-Scion.
Located: in the Beautiful San Francisco Bay Area, Northern
California.__________________________________________
******Email: [email protected]**********

C.Rickey Hirose, Fleet-Ecommerce Sales Manager.
The Hybrid vehicle's Ambassador.
(510) 252-5420 B. or (925) 699-6450 Cell.

.......................................................................................................

Hi C. Ricky Hirose,

Your figures are only 2-3 MPG over what the current Camry gets now;
even the Highlander Hybrid gets 10-11 more MPG than a normal
Highlander & most of us are quite disappointed with that low level
of improvement. If the Camry can only get 10 more MPG than the
current model, we are looking at 43-44 MPG. I think it will do a
little better than that.

Did you notice that the Highlander Hybrid has a smaller fuel tank
that the regular Highlander. I have heard the Camry Hybrid too has a
smaller tank than the regular Camry. It is very likely that the 2.4
Liter ICE is the Atkinson design that has been in use in the Estima
Hybrid for the last 5 years in Japan. The Estima gets 40-44 MPG &
that is in the old THS format. The 07 Camry Hybrid 2.4 liter ICE is
being upgraded from the THS to the HSD or THSII format & should be
even more efficient.

If you take another look at my MPG table below, you will see that
the 04-06 PRIUS EPA combined figure of 55 MPG is very close to what
I show on the 65 MPH line. Notice that the Camry Hybrid simulation
figures 44.9 MPG on that line & I believe the odds are pretty good
that the Camry Hybrid will fall pretty solidly in that range.

Not so much `wishful thinking' here Mr. Hirose as finding the
specifications for the 2007 Camry Hybrid, plugging them into the
simulator & publishing the numbers.

Best Regards,
Wayne
........................................................................................................
Hello Wayne.

Yes, the V6 application HSD on the "HH" mpg is around 28 mpg in real world driving.
A very small increase in mpg vs the ICE V6 Highlanders. Toyota Motor Corp recently
has announced that the V6 or V8 HSD application power units is _Not_ just about
higher mpg. Toyota feels and sees that others, soon to be interested "Demographics"
buyers outside of the Prius-Genre. Will be looking more towards the performance of
get up and go Power and Torque of next generations of HSD powered vehicles. A good indication
is that, The 07 Big sedans from "Lexus" HSD will be "faster and powerful" than the ICE counterparts.
and not-so-much looking at the MPG figures that Prius owning or soon to own buyer Demographics.
The 07 Camry Hybrid will bring the best of both worlds, Ample seating with room to spare A-la- Avalons.
Also will be quiter and "smoother" than the current ICE versions of the Camry-Avalons. The 3-4 mpg only better
than the current 4 cylinder Camry as you put it is not correct. I have driven a 4 cylinder Camry as company
vehicle and I could only measure City-Highway "Real" tank to empty travel range of 480-490 miles. I do not
drive in order to maximise MPG I drive at 75-80 mph when traffic flow permits. Now, I do not know the "Tank
capacity of the upcoming CH or the Camry Hybrids, whether Toyota is going to use the current Camry existing
Fuel Tank at 18.5 Gallons Capacity or they are going to use the HH's 17.2 Gallons tank or perhaps the much smaller
Prius 11.9 capacity ones .... I do not want to be overly optimistic and get dissapointed later ! I only stated that I heard
"Cruise-Range" of the 07 CH per Tankfull is 650 miles plus. Although, expect much better than what current information
knownst to me. The Entry-level Mid-Size Prius is one thing but the Full size up coming CH will be another.

Oh what a feeling to be able to market more Toyota Hybrids to the masses !

Toyota Hybrid Vehicles, To make the World a better place to live
for present and next generations to come.
__________________________________________
HSD, Hybrids for everyone in the near future.
Toyota Hybrids for this planet called, the Green Earth !
__________________________________________
PRIUS are here & The HH, Highlander Hybrid. soon to, arrived !
07 CH or the Camry Hybrid seen on the Horizon ! 06 Mid Spring- Summer
__________________________________________
The Largest PRIUS & HH Purveyor at Fremont Toyota-Scion.
Located: in the Beautiful San Francisco Bay Area, Northern
California.__________________________________________
******Email: [email protected]**********

C.Rickey Hirose, Fleet-Ecommerce Sales Manager.
The Hybrid vehicle's Ambassador.
(510) 252-5420 B. or (925) 699-6450 Cell.

*************************************************************
_________________
Toyota Hybrid Vehicles, To make the World a better place to live
for present and next generations to come.

Email: [email protected]

C.Rickey Hirose, The Hybrid vehicle's Ambassador.
(510) 252-5420 B. or (925) 699-6450 Cell
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Re: Camry Hybrid

larry31 said:
Now if only they would make a Traction Control System that will let the car wheels actually put power to the ground when both are on snow/ice.

Totally worthless in snow unless you have super snow tires.

I've owned 3 Camery's 1986, 1988, 1989. None of them had traction control. Only ran normal radials (Nothing special) Never had the car get stuck.

My 1997 Avalon with trac. cont. will NOT move if on ice/snow unless I disengage the trac. control.

Wife's 2005 Prius will NOT move if on slippery surface. Really limits an otherwise wonderfull car.

Whew!! Now I feel better.
Larry31, you can get what you wish for ! The New Generation Rav4 comes equipped with _Smart_ TRAC/VSC will sense slippage though will keep pushing = Wheel Spins to a degree at least you are moving forward with "Momentum" will post its feature how it works !
 

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Discussion Starter #35
DanMan32 said:
I never get numbers that good.
Hi DanMan32, What would you gesstimate the real MPG on the CH or the upcoming Camry Hybrid ?
 

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C.Rickey Hirose said:
So between 35 and 45 MPG will be the guess for the upcoming 07 CH the Camry Hybrid....
Do you know if the new Camry will come in a hatchback? I assme the answer is no.

What about the electronics package like the Prius? Will the new hybrid Camry have the power monitor screens, navigation, etc?

Finally... how much luggage can you put in a Camry with the rear seats folded forward? Is it more or less than a Prius?

/Jim
 

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I am looking forward to the TCH (Toyota Camry Hybrid) because I feel it will mate Toyota's excellent HSD with the quality of a Camry, since I feel the Prius is a pretty bad car if you take away the hybrid drive. So I'd like to put in my two cents.

First of all, the current Camry is rated at 24/34 mpg using a 2.4L 154-hp engine, has a coefficient of drag of 0.28, and weighs over 3100 lbs. The 2007, which only has 4 horsepower more, will probably have very slightly improved FE due to the usual engine tweaks... say 25/36? I would guess the hybrid might be rated 45/40. Considering I've heard of many people getting 48 mpg in the Prius on the highway (EPA 51), above the speed limit, the real-world highway mileage will likely be 37-40 mpg. Sounds possible, right?

I expect the 2007 to use the same 18.5-gallon tank of the 2006, and the hybrid will probably (unfortunately) have a smaller tank, but it'll probably still be 16 gallons at least. If we're pessimistic and assume a 35 mpg average and a 16-gallon tank including a 2-gallon reserve, then the car can go 490 miles over 14 gallons before the low-fuel alarm goes off, and can exceed 550 if you stretch it. If we're really optimistic and assume a 40 mpg average and 17-gallon tank, that's a 600 mile range over 15 gallons.

By the way, there are excellent interior photos of what is most likely the upscale model here. You can see from the dashboard that it can't be the hybrid, and the weird trim on the bottom of the body is definitely an optional body kit, suggesting the SE or XLE. You can compare it to these photos, which may be of the hybrid and don't have that trim. Below those photos are unofficial specs that sound very likely to me. If they're correct then Toyota is not basing the hybrid off the most-equipped package (no leather, for instance, at least not standard) so we can rest assured it will not cost $30k like the Accord Hybrid! I hope the MSRP is around $25k (base car will likely be $19k-ish). It'll definitely be more than the $22k Prius... but I suppose it theoretically could be as low as $23k?

By the way, according to that link the rear seats only have a center pass-through, they don't fold down a la the Prius. And it's not a hatchback. So it won't quite erode Prius sales, having worse cargo storage and worse fuel economy.
 

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CGameProgrammer said:
I expect the 2007 to use the same 18.5-gallon tank of the 2006, and the hybrid will probably (unfortunately) have a smaller tank, but it'll probably still be 16 gallons at least. If we're pessimistic and assume a 35 mpg average and a 16-gallon tank including a 2-gallon reserve, then the car can go 490 miles over 14 gallons before the low-fuel alarm goes off, and can exceed 550 if you stretch it. If we're really optimistic and assume a 40 mpg average and 17-gallon tank, that's a 600 mile range over 15 gallons.
I really don't understand the fascination with endurance in a car. As a pilot... I fully understand how nice it is to have lots of fuel... especially in an emergency. However, in a car, gas is abundant and I want to take breaks for personal comfort. A 600 mile range is 10 hours of driving... far more than I am likely to encounter.

Clearly, greater endurance is a benefit... but I think that it is minor for most people.

/Jim
 
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