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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Default Hydrogen+ICE+HSD+=PRIUS !

Source:Burlington Free Press

In the spring, a hydrogen-powered Toyota Prius will join the city's fleet of cars.
It will fill up at the only hydrogen pump in New England, located between the Public Works
and Burlington Electric departments, and demonstrate, its pro- ponents hope, that
hydrogen-fueled cars will someday offer a realistic alternative to gasoline.

Rep. Bernie Sanders on Wednesday announced a $1 million grant from the U.S.
Department of Energy to build a small hydrogen-fuel generator and hydrogen pump at the
Public Works site. It will take its power from a BED wind turbine. The electricity, using a
device called an electrolyzer, splits water into oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen will be
compressed and stored in a high-pressure tank on the small site.

The station is being built and tested by Proton Energy Systems of Wallingford, Conn. The
custom Prius, slated to be a Public Works car, is an internal-combustion hybrid. It is being
converted now so that it will run on hydrogen, with water, rather than carbon dioxide, as
the byproduct of combustion.

Nick Borland, an engineer with Northern Power Systems of Waitsfield, the overall
coordinator of the project, said he recently drove a similar vehicle in California, one of
fewer than 100 in the country.

"It feels like a regular car," he said.

The Burlington hydrogen project is one of several across the country operating with
Department of Energy funding. Chris McKay, a Northern Power Systems engineer, said the
testers from the various locations will meet at the Department of Energy once a year to
exchange information and learn from each other.

The Burlington site, Sanders said, will allow testing of the new car under cold weather
conditions. It also serves as a demonstration project of a "decentralized" hydrogen-
producing plant.

The technology being used at the Public Works site is familiar from industrial applications,
said John Kassel, chairman of the board of EVermont, a non-profit group that will test the
car. Kassel, a former head of the state's Agency of Natural Resources, said the novelty of
the Burlington project is that the hydrogen will be produced on site from wind, a
renewable energy source.

Sanders, a candidate to fill the U.S. Senate seat of retiring independent Jim Jeffords in
November, called the undertaking "a fascinating project with huge potential."

"We cannot overstate the significance of the problem or our need to break away from
gasoline-fueled cars," he said in a prepared statement. "Cars are America's biggest reason
for oil dependence and they represent the single biggest piece of our global warming
problem."

Tim Lennon, campaign manager for Republican U.S. Senate candidate Rich Tarrant, said
Tarrant supports such grants. "It's a good step for the administration and the Department
of Energy to fund these activities around the country," Lennon said.

"As a United States senator, Rich Tarrant would work to do more in the area of alternative
energy applications."

Harold Garabedian, EVermont's research director, said the Burlington hydrogen facility will
have capacity enough to serve up to eight hydrogen-fueled cars.

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage4184.html


The single Prius, which will run about 80 miles on one hydrogen fill-up, represents "a
beginning" for the innovative hydrogen application, he said. The practical problem, he
said, is ultimately to make decentralized manufacture of hydrogen less expensive and the
hydrogen more readily available.

He said hydrogen is no more dangerous than gasoline in cars.

"The point here," Sanders said, "is to learn."


HOW IT WORKS Electricity splits water into hydrogen and oxygen using a device called an
electrolyzer
The hydrogen is compressed and stored in high-pressure tanks
The hyrdogen is dispensed into the vehicle, which has a 5,000-psi tank
The vehicle, a converted 2005 Toyota Prius, burns the hydrogen the same way a regular
car burns gasoline, except water is the main byproduct rather than CO2.
WHEN IT STARTS The fueling station is assembled and being tested in Connecticut
The vehicle is in California undergoing conversion
Construction at the Pine Street site is 90 percent complete
Equipment to be commissioned in the spring
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-28-2005, 10:06 PM
 
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That's amazing. But can we keep the politicians out of it? All they ever do is screw things up and feed from the taxpayers' trough.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 08:17 AM
 
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It would be nice to keep the pols. out of it but probably won't happen but did i read the fill up correctly 80 mi per fill up that has to be a misprint i hope
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 08:50 AM
 
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** This is pretty good link on the basics of Hydrogen as a power source.

< http://fuelcellsworks.com/JustthebasicsonHydrogen.html >

I'm totally in favor of continuing research into Hydrogen as a fuel but... I must confess that the thought of a tank full of REALLY explosive stuff, stored at 5000 psi and sitting roughly under my butt while a Lincoln Navigator (Peterbuilt or..) rides my bumper, makes me a little nervous. San Diego has a large number of natural gas powered busses but I don't know what pressure it's stored at.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 11:56 AM
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And it does sound as though there is a little "pork barrel" involved. We will probably see it done successfully after the exhaustion of about 90% of fossil fuel supplies.



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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-2005, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDavies
** This is pretty good link on the basics of Hydrogen as a power source.

< http://fuelcellsworks.com/JustthebasicsonHydrogen.html >

I'm totally in favor of continuing research into Hydrogen as a fuel but... I must confess that the thought of a tank full of REALLY explosive stuff, stored at 5000 psi and sitting roughly under my butt while a Lincoln Navigator (Peterbuilt or..) rides my bumper, makes me a little nervous. San Diego has a large number of natural gas powered busses but I don't know what pressure it's stored at.
I agree. I don't buy the fact that hydrogen isn't more dangerous than gasoline. I might buy that it isn't more dangerous than compressed hydrocarbon gas, but we are talking about an explosive gas that won't just ooze out of a leak and evaporate into a potentially explosive vapor at a low rate, but rather forcefully escape out of the rupture and turn into a blowtorch at best if ignited. If that flame gets inside the tank, or overheats the tank, we now have a bomb.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-2005, 02:34 AM
 
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Why aren't people getting excited about this system.
Generating Hydrogen on board the vehicle.
Looks like this might be the answer.

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2 ... ectricCar/
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-2005, 03:30 AM
 
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"I agree. I don't buy the fact that hydrogen isn't more dangerous than gasoline."
**************************************************
Thank you Dan, I'm glad my amatuer logic is shared by others with greater technical knowlege. The catastrophic rupture of a full tank of pressurized hydrogen plus an ignition source and you could end up in the next zip code.
I'm wondering if (why) Hydrogen could not be stored in liquid form at low pressure and converted to a gas as it enters an engine - a la gasoline..?
Hydrogen's density is quite low and no doubt has a greater tendency to leak but that's a matter of engineering. I have great confidence that this is a soluble problem as are the risks inherent to nuclear energy. ~JD~
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-2005, 02:04 PM
 
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Again, The problem of storing high pressure Hydrogen is taken care of when it is made on demand by the alloy/water system.
No need to store it. You just change the alloy every two months and add water.

I know that the system in the link below is just enough to operate a golf cart but a more efficent version is surely possible to run a Prius.


http://www.pureenergysystems.com/new...enElectricCar/
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-10-2006, 05:06 PM
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"I agree. I don't buy the fact that hydrogen isn't more dangerous than gasoline. I might buy that it isn't more dangerous than compressed hydrocarbon gas, but we are talking about an explosive gas that won't just ooze out of a leak and evaporate into a potentially explosive vapor at a low rate, but rather forcefully escape out of the rupture and turn into a blowtorch at best if ignited. If that flame gets inside the tank, or overheats the tank, we now have a bomb."

Someone demonstrated the relative dangers of gasoline vs compressed hydrogen. In each case they shot a bullet through the top of the trunk into to fuel tank.

In the case of the hydrogen, the gas vented straight up through the hole as a pillar of fire until the tank was empty. There was no explosion and the car wasn't destroyed.

In the case of gasoline, the fuel leaked out of the tank and ran down to the ground and spread along the pavement. The entire car was engulfed in flames and was destroyed.

I'm definitely no expert on this but I don't think either tank will actually explode because you have to get oxygen into the tank for that to happen. If the hydrogen or gasoline fumes were to leak into the passenger compartment and then ignite, then you probably would have an explosion. I would think that any tank designed to hold pressurized hydrogen would be strong enough to not be ripped apart by the escaping gas (not sure about that, however).

Flames welcome
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