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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Default GM's Saturn Vue Green Line article on CNN

It seems like GM is once again taking an approach that is going to hurt them, and hurt the perception of hybrids in general. It's apparent with this new car that GM has no idea what a hybrid is intended to do. They're cutting corners, and it's just further evidence that GM has lost touch with the American public. It's sad, because my wife has a Saturn - when owning a Saturn was something special. Now we have that same special feeling of ownership, except it's with a Prius!


http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/04/17/sat ... index.html

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 07:01 AM
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Why is it that all Detroit can come up with are SUV's as hybrids
If they would take and start putting them into passenger cars they might find themselves with winners. This Saturn doesn't sound like a hybrid just like a golf cart step on the gas and it goes, foot off the gas and it stops

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 07:58 AM
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Probably because the American buyer still wants a SUV rather than a sedan. The car just makes much more sense for a growing family. This goes for the used car market also.
Actually, this is not just GM's method of going for higher milage vehicles with a lot less complexity and expense. This will probably be the way the rest of the worlds manufacturers will follow to keep initial costs down. At least, something has started in the desire to conserve oil and shave the cost of fuel fill-ups with what we now have.
The present administration in Washington is still concentrating on hydrogen fuel cells which are still years away.



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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN.com
In all hybrid vehicles, the gasoline engine automatically shuts off as soon as the vehicle stops moving even at stop signs and red lights.
At what point does this stop being a cheerfully almost-but-not-quite-accurate oversimplification I can nitpick, and start being an urban legend? For a source like CNN to be saying this so definitively, you'd almost think it was literally true.

One thing I wonder: does this qualify for the IRS 2006 hybrid credit? Every single analysis I see of the "hybrids cost more and take too long to make up the cost" ignores that factor, probably because it is transitory -- though the whole idea is that the hybrid margin is supposed to also be transitory, depending on wider production of hybrids. With that in mind, while this might be a pretty poor hybrid, it might be good for hybrids-in-general.

Just hope we don't see too many people try one, say "bah, this whole hybrid thing isn't that great after all" because of this particular hybrid engine being lame, and abandon the idea. Same thing as happened to a lot of people who heard about TiVo so got a satellite or cable provided "just like TiVo" PVR which sucked, and then wondered what the fuss about TiVo was.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterGreen
Same thing as happened to a lot of people who heard about TiVo so got a satellite or cable provided "just like TiVo" PVR which sucked, and then wondered what the fuss about TiVo was.
I know this is off topic, but what is the big deal with Tivo?

I do more with a plain vcr and don't have to pay a monthly fee to do it.

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 01:15 PM
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It's hard to explain simply. No, it's easy to explain simply, but the simple explanations leave out too much and leave people saying "what's the big deal?"

Best I can say briefly is, your VCR only works because you do all the work (and probably don't even realize how much that is). TiVo does it for you. Why is Roomba better than a broom, or a Prius better than walking? Plus TiVo does it better; it can find more than you ever can, while taking up zero of your time doing it. Finally, the fact that you can watch whatever you have any time -- even while something else is recording -- adds the last piece to the puzzle because it means you can now watch anything you like any time you like without even having to think about what's being recorded when, or indeed anything other than "what do I want to watch now?"

(Incidentally, I don't pay a monthly fee for my TiVo either.)
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGUY
Why is it that all Detroit can come up with are SUV's as hybrids
If they would take and start putting them into passenger cars they might find themselves with winners. This Saturn doesn't sound like a hybrid just like a golf cart step on the gas and it goes, foot off the gas and it stops
What's wrong with making SUV hybrids? If anything, making an SUV into a hybrid does MORE for the environment than doing it to a sedan.

Case in point: GM's 'ultra-mild-hybrid' full-size pickup trucks. (The ones where it's a hybrid really just so construction workers can plug their power tools in.) Yes, it only gains you 2 mpg city, and no improvement on the highway. But it goes from being a heavily-polluting truck to being an SULEV!

You're not going to see a 50 mpg Hummer Hybrid, but any time you improve the emmissions profile of a vehicle, it's good! Especially in the American market where 'Big Three' SUVs are still tops. If all of the big three were to convert all of their SUVs to hybrids (even 'high-power' hybrids like the Accord,) emissions would still drop a decent amount.

Yeah, it would be nice if all cars went 'full hybrid', but even adding 'belt alternator starter' hybrid is an improvement.

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 07:14 PM
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I think it is really funny that GM adds "Vue Green Line" and they think that makes it environmentally friendly. Like adding the word "green" makes this car a stellar enviro friendly vehicle.

I like the idea that when the car is stopped at a red light or stop sign, the engine stops, then kicks back on when the car starts moving. That will help a wee bit.

Kind of like putting food in green packaging and calling it healthy. I laugh when I see bacon in green colored packaging and they try to pass it off as 'lean'.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 11:35 PM
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Would be really nice if Toyota would try something like this in their 14 to 16 thousand dollar cars.



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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflowerus
I know this is off topic, but what is the big deal with Tivo?

I do more with a plain vcr and don't have to pay a monthly fee to do it.
I apologize in advance for biting on the off topic conversation but I feel compelled to share the "good news" of Tivo.

A Tivo lets you completely disassociate time and channel from the programs you watch, both while recording and watching. The best example of this is their "Season Pass". I say I want to watch Desperate Housewives (just an example). I don't need to know when it is on or what channel it is on. I just subscribe to it. Even if it moves days and times, all of the episodes will be recorded.

That is not typical VCR functionality and not even available, as far as I know, on any of the PVR/DVRs offered by any other cable or satellite company. There are a host of other features as well that make recording easier than with anything else but I won't list them here.

I was skeptical too at first but now am one of the "Tivo has changed my life" converts. I rarely watch live TV anymore. I just watch from my stash of subscribed season passes.
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