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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 09:37 PM
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Hi John1701a:

___It isnt just about the change; its about the ability to see it. A LMPG display should be available in all automobiles if you prefer to see the odometer/lmpg display, not on some chart in someones home on someones computer. Remember this display is readily accessible by you, anyone else you want to show, or the next owner. A graph from a PC is not in all cases (while on a Toyota dealerships used car lot as just one example). It isnt about fun (well it is in my case ), its about easily recognizable data in the car that can be seen at any instant by anyone. It is tough to tell an interested party what your lmpg is unless you carry around a paper graph or on a PDA vs. pushing the button and showing it in the cars display

___Let us take it a step farther. Someday, hopefully we will see the following display(s) in our automobiles as well? Or you could always keep the printed tank over tank, month, temperature, distance, traffic conditions, and mileage in the car but what is the fun in that: http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/ ... php?cid=54

___The following graph shows up for me but I dont know if it will show up for some of you?



___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:rhnghll0][email protected][/email:rhnghll0]
 
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 10:05 PM
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Okay, Wayne. I'll make you a deal. Maybe we can come to some sort of a non-agreement agreement. You know, in a non-committal, committal sort of way. eh...how about this:

A. If LMPG is available on a car, I won't necessarily reject that car out of hand.

B. If it's not available, I won't necessarily reject that car out of hand, either.

C. If it's available, and unusually low, maybe I can choose to reject the car. Or all other things being equal, maybe I can bargain the price of the car down. If I'm the seller, maybe I should expect the buyer to want to bargain the price down...

D. If it's there, and it's unusually high, maybe I can expect the seller to want more for the car...and maybe I'll be willing to pay more. And if I'm the seller, maybe I can try to get more for the car.

All of the above are contingent upon this little thing: No "hacks" appear on the web or in repair shops. The first time somebody is able to hack the LMPG, then everything goes out the window, because the value is useless. Such as the mechanical ODO is in older vehicles.

Regardless of the reasons, I think it would be smart for everybody to recognize that in the end, LMPG really may ultimately become useless as a bargaining tool.

Consider these points: When you last sold a car, you may have found out that various Lojack and/or alarm systems, and/or high-end audio systems didn't matter a hill of beans. The car was only worth what the car was worth. Sometimes, it simply doesn't matter if you have a great paint job. Or whether you've got maintenance records. Or if you have a high LMPG.

Whatever you've put into it, whether its maintenance, a great sound system, regular waxings, or plain old right-foot TLC behind the wheel, sometimes the car is simply only worth what it's worth...and no more, no less.

My only point here is that people considering a used hybrid may or may not wish to make their decision based heavily upon LMPG. Or any other single factor, for that matter.

There. I've officially beaten this horse to death. Thanks for listening!
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 02:21 PM
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Hi Bif:

___I only wish all my cars had them The Hondas lmpg are re-settable to 0 but not to a specific number if you call that a hack? The good thing is that you could easily tell if it was reset recently with a short drive as you would see it move when it actually takes hundreds of miles to see an actual change if it werent after 40,000 + miles.

___As for its use, all you have to do is look up to the pic I cobbled together above and decide which car you would rather purchase let alone show at a Group Meet or gathering. To exceed EPA estimates, you have to drive your automobiles gently. There simply is no way around it. Even more so when the lmpg is higher then EPA estimates showing a gently driven car over the entire history, not just a segment or tank.

___An lmpg readout in a car was incalculably useful for me when I purchased the Insight a few short months ago. This was my first used car purchase in almost 20 years and the lmpg was the key factor as to why I chose this particular automobile vs. the hundreds of others that I had the opportunity to purchase late last year. This used car purchase has worked out quite well so far and my fingers are crossed for hopefully another 110,000 miles of happy motoring because of a gently driven car from the day it was first driven off the dealers lot

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2yyxvlcn][email protected][/email:2yyxvlcn]
 
 
post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 03:41 PM
 
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Step back an look at the big picture... no wait, there isn't one, it's just a number.

The Consumption Screen on the Multi-Display provides a rolling 5-minute segment graph along with the immediate & average MPG values. That grossly out weighs the value of LMPG. It draws a clear picture of recent performance, far more valuable than just that single number could ever accomplish.

Whether LMPG is helpful pales in comparison. So a screen is what you should be promoting, not just a number.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 06:03 PM
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Hi John1701a:

___The following might help you

Got Ours!

___There is also a l/km screen we use to tell of we are in Fuel Cut mode as well but it is used so very little for us non-Metric folks that I skipped it.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2q06i6hc][email protected][/email:2q06i6hc]
 
post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 06:25 PM
 
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I found this an interesting topic to read although it seams people are arguing over which is best vice just taking each for what it can provide.

I Like both what they can do and wish the features of both were in both cars.

Insight Pros:
1. I don't have near the mileage on either prius that the Insight has but the Insight FCD seams to be more accurate in its readings. My manual calculations for over 100 tanks of gas are within 1 mpg of the computers value. So far both the 04 Prius and 01 Prius FCD's have consistently overestimated the mpg (hopefully this will average out more over time).

2. The Insight has several trip meters to keep track of your mileage.

3. I really do like the lmpg readout. It gives me something to strive and beat with each tank. My lmpg is 89.5 with 93k miles driven Long interstate commute makes this lmpg possible). I can truely say that the FCD feedback has modified my driving habits. (I had around mid 70's after driving my first 10K miles).

4. The charge assist meter shows me how much current I am drawing from the battery.

Prius Pros:

1. The Prius .1 mpg resolution is great. We have never figured out why the Insight mpg changes in increments of .2 - .3 other than due to metric to english conversion.

2. The screen is nice with the 5 minute averages. I think they could improve on this by using a set amount of gas as opposed to a set amount of time. After all cruising around the parking lot for 5 min on the battery can get you a 99 mpg average but the .5 miles you covered is not going to raise the average as much as a 70 mpg segment over 5 miles of interstate.

3. FOr those that have purchased one of Graham's miniscanner's you can monitor the amperage from the battery along with engine load to help your driving. I find the miniscanner much more informative than the picture of the battery, wheels, motor showing what is running.

Sure would be great if the miniscanner data could be sent to the touch screen.
Have fun, RIck
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