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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-27-2006, 11:50 PM
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I have to consider the possibility that a placebo effect is responsible for many of the reports of better handling. Some of them attribute improvements to the device that simply cannot be due to the plate. I don't know if all of them are imagined, but it seems that some are. If the buyers are happy with the results, real or imagined, after spending their money, then that is their choice. But not for me.

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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 12:58 AM
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exactly my thoughts. Fifty bucks for a piece of powder coated brace would be ok if your imagination makes you feel you are getting better handling but $160? You really have to be reaching! A flat thick piece of Aluminum or steel would probably cost Toyota less than the machined piece they have installed. And you are correct the Prius was never made to be any type of a performance car and I am planning on replacing my Integrities with a new set at about 45 thousand miles.
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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperion
exactly my thoughts. Fifty bucks for a piece of powder coated brace would be ok if your imagination makes you feel you are getting better handling but $160? You really have to be reaching! A flat thick piece of Aluminum or steel would probably cost Toyota less than the machined piece they have installed. And you are correct the Prius was never made to be any type of a performance car and I am planning on replacing my Integrities with a new set at about 45 thousand miles.
The piece that is standard on the prius is not "machined" it's a simple stamped piece of steel that is so flexible one can deform it when twisting it by hand.

I'm not sure why you're so hostile to this concept. I can confidently assure you that it improves cornering. If you don't care to accept that without even trying a car that has one of the plates then that's your choice.

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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 10:59 AM
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Your argument shouldn't be with me doc, but with Toyota. I have no doubt it will do something for the ride but still believe after three years it is not what Toyota wants to do.
Now, if the 06's had come out with this "improvement," I would certainly think about replacing the present brace on my 04.
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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 03:30 PM
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I am just not clear on what flexing the stiffer brace prevents. How this would affect handling is also not clear. The ability of non-professional drivers to detect the changes, given changing road conditions, temperatures, tire pressures, surface condition, etc, is to me a stretch.

Toyota lightweighted this car to increase mileage. With their professional and extensive solid modeling and stress analysis capabilities, it seems unlikely they would have overlooked something that is purported by some to magically transform the Prius into a bimmer for what would cost them just a few dollars.

I am not saying it isn't true, I am awaiting more than wishful anecdotal evidence that it works.

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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 04:41 PM
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I am just not clear on what flexing the stiffer brace prevents. How this would affect handling is also not clear. The ability of non-professional drivers to detect the changes, given changing road conditions, temperatures, tire pressures, surface condition, etc, is to me a stretch.

Toyota lightweighted this car to increase mileage. With their professional and extensive solid modeling and stress analysis capabilities, it seems unlikely they would have overlooked something that is purported by some to magically transform the Prius into a bimmer for what would cost them just a few dollars.

I am not saying it isn't true, I am awaiting more than wishful anecdotal evidence that it works.
It's not magical, and it was far better than a BMW before the brace...
If you don't want to be convinced then I'm not going to be able to convince you, but I'm extremely conviced that it improves the handling.

There are multple things that "a few dollars" could improve, but those 'few dollars' add up. The machining of a part like this is much much more time and labor intensive than a simple stamped piece.

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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 05:35 PM
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Whoops Doc, you just lost about 99% credibility with the statement a Prius is a better handling car than any Beemer.
One thing is the suspension is about standard for an inexpensive economy car which was never meant for high performance driving. That's one thing that really bothers me when I read statements by owners who have had their cars up to 100mph. One small chuckhole could ruin possibly a lot of lives. The Prius will never be seen on the track at Riverside even racing VW's. The suspension system in the car was never made for high speed cornering and you just can't make it so with a "stiffening plate."
It's a car that gets great milage!
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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 05:37 PM
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Why do you say I don't want to be convinced?

I am just asking for objective evidence based on either an analysis of what changes, or controlled before/after tests that demonstrate the effects. Neither has been posted on the site, so I am unconvinced-- not because I don't want to be, but from a lack of objective evidence.

A thicker stamped steel plate would be more expensive by pennies if made in quantity by Toyota. There is no need for a machined piece other than lack of tooling for a stamp. In the small quantities the aftermarket brace is being produced, there is no payback for such tooling. It is cheaper to machine stock. It isn't because it would be so much stronger.

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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 05:42 PM
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Uh, the Prius HAS been raced quite a few times.
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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 06:06 PM
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OK, I just bit the dust and dragged out my three service manuals. Maybe three thousand pages with no mention of a muffler system or catalytic converter in the index.
I did go thru every drawing in the manual on the front and rear suspension systems and there is no mention or picture of this brace in the system.
I believe this stamped fitting may have been placed in the car to prevent a broken muffler pipe from falling on the pavement.
Maybe DanMan can come up with some further info connecting this piece to the suspension system. I could not find any. Would really be interesting to find out once and for all if this product has any connection to the cars suspension or if it is just as Phil wonders, if it is a placebo.
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